[Pap Renvela]

Meta   E   Human(1)   
Attributes   A   24   
Magic   D   Adept 2   
Skills   C   28/2   
Resources   B   275000   
         
BOD   5           INIT   12+2d6
AGI   1(3)[8]   M-Limit   7
REA   5(6)           P-Limit   9
STR   1(3)[8]   S-Limit   7
WIL   5(7)      Edge   3
LOG   4           ESS   2.4
INT   6           MR   2
CHA   5      
         
         
QUALITIES         
Cyber Singularity Seaker         
Redlinner         
Burnout's Way         
Wanted (Whomever decimated the Society of the Phoenix Arisen)         
Limited Corporate SIN: Ares         
          
         
ADEPT POWERS         
Improved Reflexes [1]         
Combat Sense [1]         
         
Skills         
Automatics|SMG 6|+2         
Perception|Visual 6|+2         
Sneaking|Urban 6|+2         
Unarmed Attack|Cyber-Inplant Weapon 6|+2         
         
Augmentation         
2 Obvious cyberarms[AGI 8 STR 8]         
   Cusyom AGI/STR 6 each      
   Spurs      
   Enhanced Aror[2]      
2 Obvious cyberlegs [AGI 5 STR 8]         
   Cusyom AGI/STR 6 each      
   Enhanced Aror[2]      
Bilateral Coordination Co-Processor         
Smartlink         
Datajck         
         
Gear         
35500 nuyen to spend         
         
         
         
PREMISE         
Was employed by Ares as a bodyguard to an Ares Mr.Johnson         
Was a active member of the Society of the Phoenix Arisen         
When the group was decimated last New Years he decided to go underground to try and prevent being hunted down by whomever the GM decides was ultimately responsible.

The limbs are slated to get a host of post chargen improvements...bringing them up to AGI 10/STR 10/Armor 3 is going to cost 31k per limb alone. But before we do two initiations and buy MR up to 4, there's still .5(which due to discount becomes .4 for a total 4.0 ess loss) worth of space left. So what would you suggest should this character go for. I was thinking of maybe replacing the smartlink with an all out cyber eyes with retinal duplication as a possibility... but am not totally sold on it.
         

[gilga]

I would give up the Redliner because I think it should be a negative quality. The extra physical condition boxes from cyberarms are awesome it is a shame to give them up. I'd also suggest bio compatibility cyber-ware for this character. it has the potential to kick your essence above 3 and give you another magic point. A mentor spirit can also help, perhaps eagle for more combat sense and perception.

[Pap Renvela]

I would give up the Redliner because I think it should be a negative quality. The extra physical condition boxes from cyberarms are awesome it is a shame to give them up. I'd also suggest bio compatibility cyber-ware for this character. it has the potential to kick your essence above 3 and give you another magic point. A mentor spirit can also help, perhaps eagle for more combat sense and perception.

Redliner gives this character a +2 AGI/STR to those limbs and can reach the augmented maximum of +4. Without it the limb can only reach +3. And you are reaching +4 for cheaper with redliner than you can reach +3 without redliner as you only need to buy enhancement +2 (the other +2 being supplied by redliner.) Of course I could go with bocompatability in place of cyber singlarity seeker and have 5 leftover to get Shark Mentor Spirit. But while my MR Maximum becomes 3 I would have to wait until post chargen to come up with the 15 Karma to actually raise my MR to 3.

So we'd be talking, 15 Karma MR3, 13 Karma Initiate Grade 1, 20 Karma MR4...so about 48 (slightly less if initiation discounts) karma or about 10 run's worth before I lose Burnout's Way. Also, to fit the ware under three I'd Have to give up the Bilateral Coordination Co-Processor... not a big deal.

[gilga]

well you might not agree, without Red liner you have: 8+body/2 +4 = 15 physical boxes.
With Red liner you get: 8+3 -2 = 9 physical boxes - just like a character with body 1.
I'd prefer a bit less dice for offence and have 15 physical dice.  So for bonus dice and money saving, you pay with 6 physical condition boxes and you payed 10 karma for that.  It seems to make your character from one of the toughest man on earth to someone very fragile that should not use melee combat.

[gradivus]

well you might not agree, without Red liner you have: 8+body/2 +4 = 15 physical boxes.
With Red liner you get: 8+3 -2 = 9 physical boxes - just like a character with body 1.
I'd prefer a bit less dice for offence and have 15 physical dice.  So for bonus dice and money saving, you pay with 6 physical condition boxes and you payed 10 karma for that.  It seems to make your character from one of the toughest man on earth to someone very fragile that should not use melee combat.

I assume eventually this charcter has +12 armor between the 4 limbs... add on armor and you can be talking 25-30 armor which means most attacks are stun damage so you could argue that the WIS is more important than BOD for this build...
If it was me I might go with the original concept, not fill the .5 ess..wait to have 23 karma...initiate buy titanium bone lacing and buy back up to MR 2... you gain 3 more armor plus 3 more 3 body (for damage tests only)... your talking 35+ soak rolls. Still looks like a tank to me even with on 9 phys monitor

[Glyph]

The burnout way makes some augmentations cost less essence, but it doesn't change the basic rule that essence loss = magic loss.  The only way a character could have 2.4 essence and still have a magic of 2 would be to start with a magic of 6.

[Pap Renvela]

Priority is done in a specific order- some people argue otherwise but it says step 1 step 2 etc.

Magic is done before resources so a character with magic D has a MR 2 Maximum Magic 6.

Resource step...you buy 3.whatever to 4 ess of ware. MR drops to 0 (can't be less then zero), Maximum Magic 2.

Karma Step buy MR 1 and 2 for 15 Karma.

Works the same in Sum to 10.

Doesn't work in Karma Buy or Life Modules. Then it's how you wrote it.

That Chummer does it differently is not my concern since its a 4th edition tool mdded to 5th and not designed for 5th in the first place.

[Rooks]

Ok so does the discount happen with the alpha ware if you take bio compatibility or the standard cost?

[Pap Renvela]

Ok so does the discount happen with the alpha ware if you take bio compatibility or the standard cost?

RAW Burnout's Way who also has Adapsin and Biocompatability Cyber would get standard grade cyberware at .6 ess cost for regular price. And standard grade bioware at .8 ess.

Granted he'd have to take restricted gear for the adpsin.

Is this overpowered... I might lean toward a bit on the yes side. Way+bio for .7 I'm a bit more comfortable with. But remember, if he's buying enough ware to may Burnout Way attractive then he's seriously gimping his MR.

For most people biocompatability with transhuman is a more attractive option for 15 karma than Burnout's Way is.

[Rooks]

ya but prototype transhuman is for bio/geneware only, Also does the redliner bonus count as apart of the augmented max +4 ?

[Pap Renvela]

currently the only exception to the +4 augmented maximum is wired reflexes and reflex enhancer that can go +6 if wireless.

[Rooks]

Ok so does the discount happen with the alpha ware if you take bio compatibility or the standard cost?

RAW Burnout's Way who also has Adapsin and Biocompatability Cyber would get standard grade cyberware at .6 ess cost for regular price. And standard grade bioware at .8 ess.

Granted he'd have to take restricted gear for the adpsin.

Is this overpowered... I might lean toward a bit on the yes side. Way+bio for .7 I'm a bit more comfortable with. But remember, if he's buying enough ware to may Burnout Way attractive then he's seriously gimping his MR.

For most people biocompatability with transhuman is a more attractive option for 15 karma than Burnout's Way is.

Its not really over powered for what you get, that being said can you still be on the path with an effective 0 current magic but still be considered awakened

[adzling]

Bit of a digression but because Way's DO NOT counter towards positive quality karma limit in chargen you can take:

Burnout's Way
Prototype Metahuman
Biocompatibility

For a total of 0.3 reduction in essence cost and a free point of ware (even the ware you implant via Prototype would benefit if you buy those qualities during Chargen).

Ok so does the discount happen with the alpha ware if you take bio compatibility or the standard cost?

RAW Burnout's Way who also has Adapsin and Biocompatability Cyber would get standard grade cyberware at .6 ess cost for regular price. And standard grade bioware at .8 ess.

Granted he'd have to take restricted gear for the adpsin.

Is this overpowered... I might lean toward a bit on the yes side. Way+bio for .7 I'm a bit more comfortable with. But remember, if he's buying enough ware to may Burnout Way attractive then he's seriously gimping his MR.

For most people biocompatability with transhuman is a more attractive option for 15 karma than Burnout's Way is.

[Herr Brackhaus]

currently the only exception to the +4 augmented maximum is wired reflexes and reflex enhancer that can go +6 if wireless.

You are reading way more into that wireless bonus that what is actually there.  I don't see any rule in any book that let's you break the +4 augmented bonus limit. 

How so, exactly?

Reaction Enhancers wireless bonus:

Reaction enhancers are compatible with a wireless wired reflexes system, and the total bonus Reaction from the two augmentations can be above +4 if both systems have wireless activated.

Wired Reflexes wireless bonus:

The system is compatible with wireless reaction enhancers, and the total Reaction bonus from both systems can be above +4 if both systems have wireless active.

Seems pretty clear to me, given that specific rules override general; in this case, the wireless bonus of both systems combined overrides the general +4 cap on augmented attributes.

[FST_Gemstar]

Cyber-Singularity Seeker I think is my favorite quality. I'm iffy on Redliner but I see the appeal if you are going go full cyber anyway. If you are willing to go Attributes B and Resources A (maybe hits to Charisma and Logic), you can stuff a lot  more stuff into your limbs at character generation (even add bulk). Maybe be able at least pay to turn a spur into a focus and bond it later (or buy a knucks focus, or even astral perception focus while your at it for down the road).

Or go for Psyche/Cram + Narco for Initiative/defense boost as you have a high Willpower and save the PP for Improved Reflexes for something else? (Though IR is probably a better choice, especially if this character expects to get more power points in the future).