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A question on Dwarfs as a whole

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #15 on: <03-25-16/0043:40> »
As to the specific case of deckers?  Personal experience means nothing, but I've only seen folks play dwarves in technical roles.  Ever.  Riggers, combat medics, and deckers.  That's it.  In the rare instance I see people bother with dwarves, that is.
Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.

Blue Rose

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« Reply #16 on: <03-25-16/0055:17> »
The extra willpower in particular is nice.  For a heavily armored character, you'll probably be taking mostly stun, so seven for that extra box can be a magic number, if you're not going for a different maxed stat.  Honestly, if you're not looking to get into melee, which you can do fairly safely, I'd say they're overall better in combat than an orc.

jim1701

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« Reply #17 on: <03-25-16/0106:41> »
My first Shadowrun character was a Dwarf Street Sam in 2nd edition.  Still remember the mayhem after he salvaged that Panther Assault Cannon off of that wrecked Dragon.  Good times.    :)

Critias

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« Reply #18 on: <03-25-16/0146:09> »
As to the specific case of deckers?  Personal experience means nothing, but I've only seen folks play dwarves in technical roles.  Ever.  Riggers, combat medics, and deckers.  That's it.  In the rare instance I see people bother with dwarves, that is.
I think it's a holdover from the builder/smith/engineer fantasy tropes around them.  If I could've made Hardpoint a something else, I'd've made him a something else (but my job was to match things up to existing art).  I kind of hated making him "the rigger" out of the little SR5 crew, but that's what there was to work with (and hey, at least there's a dwarf at all, I guess?).

I've got a couple other dwarfs in a couple other roles in some upcoming fiction, though, if that's any consolation.

BetaCAV

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« Reply #19 on: <03-25-16/0152:07> »
The best part of being a dwarf is other dwarfs. "Fist-bump, bring it in."

Wakshaani

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« Reply #20 on: <03-25-16/0153:07> »
(None taken)
The only good halfers are the flat headed ones I keep in my den as bedtables. That or dead.
...
I thought the dwarfs actually had a nation somewhere or at least their own district inside Seattle underground. I believe it's briefly mentioned in Ashes

They got kicked out of the Underground some time ago, which is when it became teh Ork Underground. There's a whole lotta bitterness there. If you pick up Storm Front, you can see it bubble up when the media talks about Prop 23.

Dwarves, as a whole, tend to stay quiet, keep their head down, and do their job, all while trying to not be noticed. As the saying goes, "It's easy to overlook the Dwarf."

Wakshaani

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« Reply #21 on: <03-25-16/0156:38> »
The best part of being a dwarf is other dwarfs. "Fist-bump, bring it in."

And then there's this. Dwarves network with other Dwarves, and there's a silent brotherhood that you know you can count on. Bar brawl breaks out? You know that no Dwarf is gonna clonk you if you're also a Dwarf, and there's a dang good chance that you'll just have somebody take yoru back and you'll flow right into protecting one another. Dwarf goes in for a bank loan and gets a Dwarf loan officer. There'll be some talking for the cameras, but they both know it's getting approved and at generous rates. Dwarf outside the store hungry? Dwar owner quietly has their kid run out there with a meal... he knows the guy'll be good for it down the road.

You just don't get a lot of teh infighting that the others do. (In general. There are, of course, exceptions, because in Shadowrun, there's always room for jerks.)

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #22 on: <03-25-16/0759:18> »
Both dwarves and trolls are at about 1% of the population compared to about 16% for each elves and orks.  They are statistical outliers. As such, you'll find a much larger variation within the group than the statistically larger groups.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #23 on: <03-25-16/0814:26> »
Uh ... no?  The bell curve will be about the same, the range of variations will be the same, but the numbers which are represented is going to be fewer - which can mean that they stand out more, but it sure as hell doesn't mean that there's a 'larger variation' of them.
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MijRai

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« Reply #24 on: <03-25-16/1022:21> »
First, Wyrm is correct.  They won't have a larger variation, it'd just stick out a bit more among a smaller population. 

Second, those numbers are bullshit, Joe.  Run Faster has the breakdown of the world population by metatype:
Human: 39% (a given)
Ork: 22% (also the fastest growing)
Elf: 15% (makes sense)
Dwarf: 14% (NOT 1%)
Troll: 5% (STILL NOT 1%)
Other: 5% (Metasapients and shapeshifters, mostly; I think SURGE falls under here, maybe Infected)
« Last Edit: <03-25-16/1039:40> by MijRai »
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #25 on: <03-25-16/1115:41> »
Run Faster upped the proportions.  I'll admit that 1% was low, but it wasn't 14%.  Yea, Seattle is at 2% for each of dwarf and troll.

My point is that their numbers put them as the statistical outliers.  Their primary feature is that they are either short or tall.  That means that anyone in the other metatype that is either a little too short or a little too tall gets lumped into the dwarf /troll metatypes.  So they have all the variations of their own metatype plus all the variations of the other metatypes.  But how does the world see them? Just a dwarf of just a troll.

MijRai

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« Reply #26 on: <03-25-16/1136:19> »
...

Seriously? 

No.

Short humans and elves and orks don't get lumped into the dwarf metatype.  Tall humans, elves and orks don't get lumped into the troll metatype.  Dwarfs are a distinct metatype with distinct benefits.  Just because someone plays an ork with dwarfism (the condition that afflicts people nowadays, not the UGE kind), doesn't make them a dwarf; they'e just a short ork.  Just because some folks are freakishly tall, doesn't mean they have dermal deposits and horns )or the over-long arms) to make them trolls.  Orks, elves and humans don't have thermographic vision, which dwarfs and trolls do. 

To argue all shorter than average people are dwarfs and all taller than average people are trolls in the canon Shadowrun is flat-out idiotic.  If it is something you do at your table, say as much.

Back to the point...  Maybe Seattle itself is short on (ha, get it?) the diminutive aspect of metahumanity.  They had the Night of Rage, the falling out with the Ork Underground, there easily could have been an exodus.  It also isn't impossible for the city to have a higher-than-average human population compared to the world-wide average.  Not to mention those percentages you're talking about only cover the SINners, which leaves plenty of undocumented orks and trolls to bring the percentages back in line. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #27 on: <03-25-16/1228:17> »
Falling through the cracks is kind of a goal for dwarves.  By an large, the dwarven subculture wants to be able to live prosperous, productive lives within the greater metahuman society, without dealing with the drek and backlash of racial politics that the elves revel in exploiting and the orcs and trolls keep waging loud, constant, and often violent battle with.  Not being noticed is their best defense.
This is great IC motivation but really boring to read about OOC and also makes for real weird runner origins. Dwarves should be an interesting character option. The other metas have been given boatloads of interesting details. Hell I think humans have been developed in more interesting ways simply because baseline humanity has to react to all these weird changes to what it means to be human. Dwarves just need a lot of love to catch players' eyes. They're just not portrayed as culturally interesting as it stands and that's somewhat of a death knell for player interest beyond "I want a higher WIL cap".
Playability > verisimilitude.

MijRai

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« Reply #28 on: <03-25-16/1314:37> »
And like I mentioned earlier, no-one wants to be the comedic relief.  I've seen so many dwarfs get shoehorned into it after the Lord of the Rings films came out. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #29 on: <03-25-16/1347:51> »
First, Wyrm is correct.  They won't have a larger variation, it'd just stick out a bit more among a smaller population. 

Second, those numbers are bullshit, Joe.  Run Faster has the breakdown of the world population by metatype:
Human: 39% (a given)
Ork: 22% (also the fastest growing)
Elf: 15% (makes sense)
Dwarf: 14% (NOT 1%)
Troll: 5% (STILL NOT 1%)
Other: 5% (Metasapients and shapeshifters, mostly; I think SURGE falls under here, maybe Infected)

I'm not at all down with those numbers, for the record. They go agaisnt everything published previously and the overall universe feel changes *enormously* if you don't have a Human majority. The traditional numbers look more like:

Human - 68%
Elf - 12%
Ork - 16%*
Dwarf - 2%
Troll - 1%
Other - 1%

* Ork population is undercounted due to the large number of SINless that are Ork. (Trolls are similarly undercounted, but not to the same extent.)

This lines up with the world-as-presented much better.