[adzling]

troo dat!

[Tarislar]

Reading this really makes me miss SR1E Skillwires.

[Whiskeyjack]

The issue with the MBW is the constant twitching wreak it makes you

Just say you're a junkie, nobody will care. 

[Pap Renvela]

<snip>

And don't the cyberware packages like front line mind have some major drawbacks?  Namely constantly squawking ads about what they are and being continuously wireless, without the option to turn it off?

The things in Lockdown are cybersutes: the drawback for cybersuites is they don't work with any other 'ware- not even a datajack.

The things in Chrome Flesh are augmentation bundles: the drawback is that wireless is always on and they constantly send out adverts. They can however work with other 'ware.

Two sets of writers went two different ways with the same initial concept.

[Blue Rose]

The things in Lockdown are cybersutes: the drawback for cybersuites is they don't work with any other 'ware- not even a datajack.

The things in Chrome Flesh are augmentation bundles: the drawback is that wireless is always on and they constantly send out adverts. They can however work with other 'ware.

Two sets of writers went two different ways with the same initial concept.

Oh, so they're for making NPCs quickly.  Got it.

[Whiskeyjack]

Oh, so they're for making NPCs quickly.  Got it.

Not necessarily. In-setting, they're things basically sold as a package together. A character could certainly have reasons for wanting or having them.

[Rooks]

Like putting reaction enhancers at rating 3 instead of 2 to screw new characters over

[Glyph]

For augmentation bundles, you apparently can get the wireless turned off, at "about a grand per item", by a street doc.  I am annoyed that they stuck this in the shadowtalk, instead of the rules where it belongs.  The bundles overall don't impress me a lot.  The miniscule Essence savings will usually be offset by being stuck with unwanted or too low-rated individual augmentations.

[Whiskeyjack]

Like putting reaction enhancers at rating 3 instead of 2 to screw new characters over

No thats just classic 5e "editing"

[Pap Renvela]

For augmentation bundles, you apparently can get the wireless turned off, at "about a grand per item", by a street doc.  I am annoyed that they stuck this in the shadowtalk, instead of the rules where it belongs.  The bundles overall don't impress me a lot.  The miniscule Essence savings will usually be offset by being stuck with unwanted or too low-rated individual augmentations.

That's not a rule- the rules specifically state it's built into the hardware not the software and can't be undone.

Remember, not everything stated in shadowtalk is true.

However, the caveat as always, it's your home game and your GM can decide it any way he wants.

Personally, if I was GMing both augmentation bundles and cybersuites would follow the rules of cybersuites.
It's a value package that doesn't work with other cyberware.
Some of those bundles are good for starting characters...
Just save up a fortune nd when you are ready, rip it out and get your new ware.

[Glyph]

That's exactly why stuff like that shouldn't be in the shadowtalk, especially when it is a poster reacting to the text of a rule as if it were some online doc they are looking at.

[Pap Renvela]

That's exactly why stuff like that shouldn't be in the shadowtalk, especially when it is a poster reacting to the text of a rule as if it were some online doc they are looking at.

No disagreement here.

[Blue Rose]

Doubly so since, even if it is hardware, it doesn't seem hard to fix.  If nothing else, break whatever piece is squawking.  Depending on the nature of the augmentations, even if you permanently disable wireless functionality, you should still be fine.

[Pap Renvela]

Doubly so since, even if it is hardware, it doesn't seem hard to fix.  If nothing else, break whatever piece is squawking.  Depending on the nature of the augmentations, even if you permanently disable wireless functionality, you should still be fine.

Chrome Flesh p92: The wireless capability of these bundles cannot be turned off.

The cannot is italicized in the book for emphasis.

What part of cannot is not understood?

You guys make arguments as if RAW allowed you to work around this- it doesn't.

There is no valid rules argument  in this case as the rule on wireless for these bundles (unlike a lot of rules) is unambiguous.

Which is why I added "If I was GM" to the "I'd treat augmentation bundles like cybersuites" because it would be personal preference and GM fiat, not RAW.

[Blue Rose]

I wasn't arguing rules. I'm just saying that the rule is silly in the context of the setting.

Even if there's a hardwired squawker in there, there's no adequately explained reason why, even if you can't electronically turn it off, you couldn't physically go in and break whatever components are squawking , even if it permanently disables all wireless functionality. This isn't a rules observation. It's the first thing most Shadowrunners would think to do to the equipment and the reason it wouldn't work is not adequately explained.