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Snowflakes - Ask Bobby! #9

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GMFunkytown

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« on: <03-28-16/0912:27> »
Hey everyone.

Just uploaded my newest episode of Ask Bobby! I weigh in on the discussion about whether or not those special snowflakes belong in Shadowrun. I also talk briefly about how sensors work and about what one of my other favorite RPGs is.

Check it out!

https://youtu.be/xoxGW1vUobg

Reaver

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« Reply #1 on: <03-30-16/2321:04> »
Good vid.

Interesting viewpoint...... but we all know where I stand on 'snowflakes' :D
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ScytheKnight

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« Reply #2 on: <04-03-16/1927:42> »
Finally got around to watching this one.

In terms of the "Special Snowflake", right off the bat I kinda hate that term... It implies straight away that there's no other reason to play this character than to be "special", and in general I have issues with those kinds of assumptions.

I'm running a more or less Missions campaign, but we've decided to branch out. Living in Australia, there's not really many chances for officially sanctioned games, so we're just using Missions rulings as a solid backbone, but not a bee all and end all. Why is this relevant? Because our Decker is now an AI who will be played by different players depending on who can make it, one of them may even be playing via Skype sometimes. Now yes, that was actually my idea as a GM to handle the issues of getting a player who can consistently make it to the games and play as a Decker.

To me one of the important aspects of the exotic races is the downsides. I agree with what you say, Shadowrun is a cyberpunk game about an uncaring world trying to grind the characters down, being one of these exotic races, or infected, ect. is just going to make things all the harder. So if one of my players comes to me asking to play a Naga? Well first off, do they know how they're going to deal with not having any arms? Want to play a Vampire? Do they know how they're going to deal with Sunlight and Essence loss?

To me it just seems dismissing these choices out of hand is really short sighted and narrow minded. If someone comes up to you gushing about how cool it would be to play a cybernetically enhanced centaur. You may need to have a sit down with this player and discuss motivations. If someone comes to you talking about how they want to play a centaur rigger who's modified the back of their van to hold his body while he's in VR. Why simply dismiss this out of hand? It's clear that this player has gone "Hmm, centaurs are really big, how's this character going to get around?" and then come up with a solution before approaching you. It seems pretty evident that they're serious about this character and put a lot of thought into how they're going to deal with the obstacles presented by trying to fit such an exotic character into the one-size-fits-all corporate-run Sixth World.
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Glyph

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« Reply #3 on: <04-04-16/0224:39> »
If you make the game too "realistic" then even bland (as in ordinary looking), paranoid, careful human shadowrunners wouldn't be able to make a living in the face of ubiquitous recording and sci-fi forensics.  A GM should remember that large swaths of civilization are lawless, that data is untrustworthy (since it is so easy to fake), balkanized, and there is an overwhelming glut of it to wade through.  Also, shadowrunners themselves are a quasi-accepted means for the megacorporations to wage their continual covert war upon each other.  Not saying corps won't be ready for runners, just that barring other circumstances (such as truly excessive property desctruction or death), they won't (usually) be too interested in runners who have made a clean getaway and had time to make the handoff.

Some games may be more stringent, and the rules support a lot of different playstyles, but I don't consider standard game options to be "special snowflakes".  If they put vampires, ghouls, pixies, and shapeshifters into the game, then if they don't fit the game, the game was very poorly put together.  I do understand GMs who have balance issues with  how these options were statted out, or simply can't figure out how to run a game that they would survive, with the disadvantages they have.  That's one thing I really wish there had been more of - practical advice on how some of these exotic types live, find jobs, and work around their problems as runners.

kyoto kid

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« Reply #4 on: <04-04-16/1849:56> »
...having written and GM'd a campaign (3 ed) totally set in Europe, some of the variants like Pixies for example would have fit in OK (especially in the UK where I developed them as NPCs).  It really depends on the flavour of the campaign.

Admittedly they would be extremely challenging to play due to their inherent frailness, especially with the possibility of area effect spells and grenades being tossed about. However, the idea of a pixie spellcaster, summoner, or even alchemist  would not be outside the bounds of the setting I had.
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Dinendae

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« Reply #5 on: <04-04-16/2307:01> »
When you play a pixie you need to plan ahead for those AoEs by thinking in 3D; you can fly, more or less, so use that ability to stay alive. While not always possible, putting yourself up above the battlefield will help protect against those kinds of attacks, and combined with concealment or invisibility spells, it will allow you to greatly assist your team by having better line of sight to the enemy for spells or just relaying tactical information.

Blue Rose

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« Reply #6 on: <04-06-16/1935:14> »
Also, my take on Shadowrunners is, you are the outcasts, the weirdos, the freaks who have no place in this rigid, orderly machine that is the sixth world.  Honestly, the more freakish characters have an easy explanation for why they're running the shadows; they're living in the world that has no other place for them.

Reaver

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« Reply #7 on: <04-06-16/1956:45> »
Also, my take on Shadowrunners is, you are the outcasts, the weirdos, the freaks who have no place in this rigid, orderly machine that is the sixth world.  Honestly, the more freakish characters have an easy explanation for why they're running the shadows; they're living in the world that has no other place for them.

Agreed, to a point.

There is a difference between playing a unique character (race and all) and playing a snowflake. A well thought out and balanced character playing within the limits of their archtype is fine. And can even be rewarding for the whole party.

For example a Pixie B&E magical expert in Kyoto Kid's game (and especially if it was a 'sneak' heavy game).
Pixie's while rare are at least from the general area, and are naturally awakened. No real issues here.

Now, trying to play a pixie with 5 points of cyberware whose primary weapon is a mini-gun, in an adventure set in Denver that is predominately A 'Mirror shades' game? That's a snowflake.

As I told someone in a private post, I know a GM in my home town that excusively runs what he calls a 'freaks and geeks' game. Players bring whatever mad combos they want, he throws together runs for them. (We won't talk about what generally happens... as that's not the point). For his games, there is no such thing as a 'snowflake'.

In short, 9 times out of 10, 'snowflakes' are attempts to grab attention, or keep attention focused on a single player, usually through the very fact that they 'different'.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Teknodragon

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« Reply #8 on: <04-07-16/1332:00> »
Speaking as a player who loves the idea of playing a character which is physically odd:
1. Some of it is 'cool factor'. 'The Most Fragged-up Drake You Never Met,' to file half the serial numbers off a line. The idea of a decker who can get into places without using tech that few people expect. A PC who has to deal with resembling something mythical, or from prehistory.

2. 'What happens if I combine...' Pushing the limits of the numbers and abilities. Which can lead to things like Surged Troll On Skates. Or a quad-wielding pistoleer. Don't ask about the time I tried that with grenades.

3. 'The spam, eggs, and spam ain't got much spam innit.' Ho-hum, another adventuring party comprised of human, dwarf, elf, and halfling. This is a personal reaction to RPGs in general, where it feels to me like everyone is a cookie-cutter collection of stats, while the opposition/'monsters' are vibrant and interesting.

4. 'Look at MEEEEE!' Not sure how much this factors in to my own decisions. I don't like to think that this weighs heavily into my choices of the weird. This is the category of needing to be in the spotlight and stealing the show.

A question that I often see, is "Why would Mr. Johnson even think about hiring Mr./Mrs. Freakshow when there's a million flavors of grey in the Vend-o-Runner?" The player needs to be able to answer that question in spades. And not with, 'well, Jimmy Snowflake is the only one available on short notice.' Jimmy Snow needs to be good at what they do. Really, really good: Nobody expects a creature to fly up to the roof, avoid the drone sensors, and tap into the data lines there. Or yeah, four arms is noticeable, but when the drek starts to fly, they can put down more cover fire than an LMG, without having to try to sneak a fragging machine gun in. Chaps or no chaps.

The one thing that I want to see applied to my oddball characters that rarely happens is the oppression for being different in-character, and the most understandable reason I can see for a GM to deny these options. No mental overhead to feed that line of identical trenchcoat-wearing, bland, sunglasses-indoors Shadowrunners through the missions. The player has their character to run; the GM has the world to run. This is where compromise comes in; having a good story for a character that hooks a GM helps a lot too. 'Glitter here is Incompetent with close combat weapons, especially bladed ones, because she has a nasty scar on one hand from being careless with a big knife. So she's too careful about not hurting herself for using that stuff.' Why did the PC buy that cyber-tail? Where were they when that fragging comet flashed overhead and turned them into... that *thing*.

The other players need to be able to work with that character too; some will shoot an Infected on sight and burn the body, bleach their clothes and check in with their street doc daily. Others won't work with anything weird or unprofessional-looking (though there was that game where the weird one acted professional, and the otherwise-normal guy in a kabuki mask kept stealing the show).

Had to get that off my chest. Though, before you go, Citizen, what's your clearance rating? This is Orange-level information and you seem to be wearing red...
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Dinendae

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« Reply #9 on: <04-07-16/2204:37> »

Had to get that off my chest. Though, before you go, Citizen, what's your clearance rating? This is Orange-level information and you seem to be wearing red...


I suspect a Communist!  ;D

Blue Rose

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« Reply #10 on: <04-07-16/2308:50> »
One of the issues with the snowflake discussion is the no true Scotsman fallacy.  Something's a snowflake, but you get to talking about it and fleshing out the idea to the point where that crazy proposal can actually make an entirely reasonable character, and suddenly, it's not a snowflake, but this other thing is the snowflake unless more carefully considered.

MijRai

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« Reply #11 on: <04-08-16/0001:23> »
I wouldn't call it No True Scotsman, but it is a very subjective topic. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Blue Rose

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« Reply #12 on: <04-08-16/0106:21> »
I wouldn't call it No True Scotsman, but it is a very subjective topic.
That's just because there is no true No True Scotsman. :P

Teknodragon

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« Reply #13 on: <04-08-16/0151:41> »
Blue Rose, MijRai, you both make good points on subjectiveness, and the idea of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

The question seems to come down to player RP capacity, and GM time/attention capacity, plus the story/part of the world the GM is planning to start with.

This got turned on its head once in a game I was in. I finally got to check 'play a drake' off my bucket list. Another player was trying out the concept of a rigger paralyzed below the neck. We wound up being dumped in a jungle, minus most of our gear; the rigger was able to keep one anthro-drone that he usually used to interact with the world. It was useful having a massive predator on-call, while much time and effort was spent on just keeping the otherwise ordinary human rigger relevant.

Perhaps a good rule of thumb is that it shouldn't take most of nearly every session to work out how everyone doesn't get caught because of the same character's mere presence on the team?
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BetaCAV

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« Reply #14 on: <04-08-16/0350:43> »

Had to get that off my chest. Though, before you go, Citizen, what's your clearance rating? This is Orange-level information and you seem to be wearing red...


I suspect a Communist!  ;D
You better have a laser handy if you're going to make those kind of accusations out loud... although it's common knowledge among IntSec that PL&C is vertiably crawling with commies, ever since the foodvat spills in PBJ sector. I'm sure Friend Computer knows who to watch, though.
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