[Senko]

I was thinking about this recently and I'm having trouble picturing how this would work for a run of the mill film or tv show. So I figured I'd throw it open for debate, what I'm talking about here is the actual movie nature when your experiencing it in 3/4d (full immersion and extras smell/taste/touch. I can see it working reasonably well for an action or a porn trideo but a lot of movies to me seem like they'd be difficult to manage.

Just thinking about all the times movies change scenes (your suddenly standing in the cactus plant or you reset mid step and trip over), have close ups for facial expressions/vital information you'd only see if you actually walked up and stuck your face in the right place at the right time. If your experiencing it from the perspective of a main character what do you miss because you can't see anything they're not looking at, what happens to scenes where that character isn't present do you switch to another character? Imagine a horror film with only the murderer/alien/ghost/monster and the victim either you feel the person being ripped apart by your claws or you feel the claws ripping you apart (presumably dulled to prevent sensory overload) otherwise every death happens off screen.

Cartoons and other media that are visual heavy seem like they'd be hardest hit imagine watching Disney's new Zootopia through Judy's eyes/sensations and how much you'd miss because the ears are on top of your head or she's busy not being stepped on or is looking away from something. Alterantively take Batman V Superman either you'd be jumping between the perspectives of at least 4 characters or you miss huge chunks of the movie plot. Friday the 13th every kill that is only Jason and Victim means either you die or you kill someone. If a tv show with adds what if you get one like that Prevecto add with a series of dogs?

So how do people think these things work?

[Beta]

I think the key point is that simsense isn't something you just tack onto a traditional movie.  The best stuff is created specifically for use with simsense, and the whole arrangement, pacing, etc are all different.  And the key skills for the performers is more about how they pick up on simsense and less about how they look from the outside (although performers will still, on the whole, be chosen from the beautiful people)

Also note that there is probably a lot of popular simsense that is not so much about plot or character as simply about experience.  Riding a horse, cooking shows (or simply food appreciation shows), boxing matches, garden tours, concerts (as audience or as a performer), ballet dancing, sky-diving, and so on.

[Senko]

Probably and I may have used the wrong term (I'm trying to get back to being awake during daylight hours so I'm tired) but I was thinking sim moduels and interactive trid's. I suppose they could still be flatscreen in virtual space it just seems that there's a major disconnect between full immersion on a movie/tv show and actually being able to get the most out of it.

You can't experience a movie as they're made today via the senses of a specific character without losing a lot of the plot/pacing/jokes, same with if your in the movie but free to move around and watch as if you were there but not actually there (if you see what I mean). However the only way I can see around it is if even in your virutal environment your still watching a movie that's at best 3d in the sense of how they are today i.e. looking in through a window not 3d as in happening all around you.

I agree its not really something you can just tack on but I can't see how a trideo would actually work without losing a lot especially on the more visually heavy styles. Think about a cartoon show simpsons, futurama, clonewars, teen titans, what have you with all the visual jokes they pack in and try to picture making something like that for someone who's actually experiencing it in the middle of the show and can move/look around. Think about a suspense or horror movie where the audience can miss a death because they were in the greenhouse and the killer was decapatating the jock in the upstairs bathroom.

That's what I'm trying to figure out how the pacing/arrangement etc is actually set up on these and whether even in the shadowrun world you'd still have "movie screen's" as it were because having someone doing the virutal equivalent of standing at a window looking out into the movie world you make allows things to be done that simply can't if instead they are actually part of the action or even in the scene.

[Herr Brackhaus]

You can't experience a movie as they're made today via the senses of a specific character without losing a lot of the plot/pacing/jokes, <znip>

This is the key right here. I expect simsense entertainment wouldn't conform to the standards of cinematography that we have come to know today. There's a couple of published adventures that deal with simsense actors, and they're often described as being rigged up to simsense recording gear. Hence, I think this kind of technology would represent a paradigm shift in how movies are shot compared to today's flatscreen ones.

They could also be more like 3D, filmed specifically to give you the sensation that you're standing in the middle of the experience much like a modern day 3D movie.

[Reaver]

They actually talk a lot about this and simsense technology in a past 2e book. The name of which escapes me ATM (Wyrm would know...)

Basically all simsense movies are 3D productions (think oculus rift tech, x1000) with a perspective an emotive tracks of all the major characters.

When one 'Watches' a trideo with simsense, the viewer follows the view point and emotive point of a singular character. However, he can change his perspective at any time. And many movies contain a "persective track" flips the perspective/emotive track from actor to actor as the plot demands...

I think the easiest way to think about it would be more like using an Oculus Rift to view the cut scene from a game, but also getting the emotions from character as well.

And we all know exactly WHAT industry has profited the most from 'Sinsense' tech...

[Stry]

Simsense and trideo are different things.

 Simsense is better known as BTLs.  Simsense is a point of view recording that not plays images and sound but all 5 senses.   If you ever seen the movie Strange Days depicts the concept very well. To watch it you need ether to use a sim module with a DNI connection of some type.  These are not something you will generally watch with a bunch of friends.

Trideo is more like a 3D TV.  They basically replaced 2D TVs in everyone's homes. Prefect for watching the big game with a bunch of your friends.

Hope this clears things up.

 

[Reaver]

Simsense and trideo are different things.

 Simsense is better known as BTLs.  Simsense is a point of view recording that not plays images and sound but all 5 senses.   If you ever seen the movie Strange Days depicts the concept very well. To watch it you need ether to use a sim module with a DNI connection of some type.  These are not something you will generally watch with a bunch of friends.

Trideo is more like a 3D TV.  They basically replaced 2D TVs in everyone's homes. Prefect for watching the big game with a bunch of your friends.

Hope this clears things up.

BTLs are a simsense recording that have had their emotive channels tweaked beyond safe levels, creating an incredible high and addiction to said high.

Cal-Hots are simsense recordings that have been hacked to 'just' this side of addictive.....

But yes you essentially right. Pure simsense recordings are of generally.... personal activities, or limited group activities. And get your mind out of the gutter:P That is not the only market. Extreme sports recordings and other activities are big sellers too.

But there are also 'Big' simsense/trideo productions as well, where you can not only watch your favorite action hero 'on screen' but actually feel what the character is feeling.

[Senko]

So I was right normal viewing is more 3d screen than full immersion thanks.

Hmmm I can see how BTL's would be addictiver especially if you combine it with a mage casting create emotion you not only see the movie through the eyes of a character but feel the pain where their leg got cut open or their love for the opposing lead. For someone in the shadowrun world wanting to escape a miserable life escaping into one where you are loved/love. Heck my life's not too bad and I've had movies I've watched multiple times because I love them so much if I were actually seeing/experiencing what a man character is could be highly tempting especially if it left lingering feelings. Seeing the main male/female lead fall in love is with thing, feeling the emotions of love for one every time you watched it.

[Senko]

Hmmmmm AI and computer advances could make for a very interesting movie going experience now that I think about it.

1) Log in to your comlink/host/deck.
2) Settle down in your luxurious chair with food and drink and a great big movie style screen functioning as a window" to your movie.
3) When you want to take a closer look you pause it and actually walk through the window to stroll around in the movie with full 3d sensations.
4) Pay the extra for the the interactivty mod and you can actually "direct the film" (assuming its one set up for this) either by pausing and instructing a detail to change or by going in and interacting as a new character to see how it changes things.

Could be quite fun pause a film walk in and try the food you can't get normally (so this is what steak tastes like), change a detail and watch the plot develop differently based on the actor database supplied with interactive movies (Move that gun 3 feet away from the villain toward Bond) or create your own form and change events "Psst Mate you don't want to go in there a 7 foot tall dude with pale skin was asking about you . . . What not even a 5er? cheat git."

Its not even that farfetched years ago the blue ray of return to house on haunted hill had an interactive option where you could select various plot paths e.g. making the lesbian villain make out with the ghosts or run away changing whether she lived or died. With larger computer storage, AI advances and all the rest I can see some films having an actor database (various personality traits and the like) so when you change something they react to the new film as if they were real and if you like it enough you can even save the altered storyline. Heck you could even have a directors program with a huge selection of default personalities and you can create your own film. Enter your script into one template "Mariana slaps Tod and walks away. Tod = Clark Gable Personality type 1, defining trait = fear of IRS." Possibly with a clause stating any film of sufficient quality may be picked up by the film studio for mass resale, and naturally a whole load of rubbish being produced by people dreaming of being the next big thing.

[Reaver]

Magic has pretty much taken over the special effects departments of many studios.
Why have an army computer graphics designers, prop hands, electricians and carpenters when a handful of mages can do it all with illusions?

Post-processing they add in all the emotive tracts that they couldn't originally get. (Not many actors are willing to take a sucking chest wound just to get the emotion tract right.... not to mention the insurance!

[Crimsondude]

Magic has pretty much taken over the special effects departments of many studios.
Why have an army computer graphics designers, prop hands, electricians and carpenters when a handful of mages can do it all with illusions?

1) Because VFX studio drones are hella cheap in 207x compared to the hourly rates charged by magicians.
2) Because magic actually doesn't translate well to trideo and sim, so even "magic" itself tends to be done with VFX, which is partly why the mundane populace has this notion that all magic is flashy and dramatic.

[Reaver]

Magic has pretty much taken over the special effects departments of many studios.
Why have an army computer graphics designers, prop hands, electricians and carpenters when a handful of mages can do it all with illusions?

1) Because VFX studio drones are hella cheap in 207x compared to the hourly rates charged by magicians.
2) Because magic actually doesn't translate well to trideo and sim, so even "magic" itself tends to be done with VFX, which is partly why the mundane populace has this notion that all magic is flashy and dramatic.

That seems to contradict what has been said before. (Most recently in Attitude 4e, and I believe Shadowbeat 2e)
Or is it my memory that is going? (On site, away from books)

[farothel]

There is an older book (1994 or '95 I think) called 'Mother of Storms' by John Barnes which has some sort of simsense in it and one of the characters is a simsense actress, so they describe how it's done.
I can actually recommend the book for other things as well (they have humans uploading their conscious in computers in it for instance), so it might be worth it for more types of plots.