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Prime Runner Combat Mage: Help!

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bangbangtequila

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« on: <04-15-16/1135:28> »
So I'm making an elven combat mage from Tir Na Nog for an interesting game on the forum, featuring a group of vampire hunters rather then runners. I would imagine there would be a fair amount of overlap in skill sets, but I don't want to delve too deeply into the game for advantages during creation - just the general theme so that I can specialize enough on an applicable area to be useful. My issue, mainly, is that I have never made a magician, let alone a 5E one.

My concept is an ex-special forces mage from the elven nation, a relatively minor relation to one of the major families (I'm thinking O'Connor) who earned his keep by working in a deniable asset unit working to support or counter corporate shadow runners in service to his country and his family. Unfortunately, a less savoury member of his house used his influence to set the team on a less-deniable asset on assignment (through ignorance of the other team, or to purposely burn theirs? Mysteries abound!) and he had to leave the country. His service warranted some privileges, and a few friends. Mostly, he has a talismonger that imports his supplies at a pretty reasonable rate, with the occasional gun or such (using the contact but not necessarily the black market pipeline quality).

He needs to be able to wield great destructive force through combat spells and powerful spirits, since my whole idea for him involves being really magical. I'll take Automatics to have some mundane talent, though the idea of taking some manipulation spells and a sword to go all jedi is appealing too. I'm very keen on taking utility spells, but the priority has to be having a combat spells for most situations, though I'm fairly creative and able to adapt spells to be useful.

I've opted for priority build, using Prime Runner rules, but if there's a better way to sling spells please let me know!

Here are the points on which I really need help:

1) Prototype Transhuman: Worth it for a high powered magician?

2) Witness My Hate: Since it really is only good for dealing a bit more damage without turning your drain into physical. With my ideal set up, it would allow DV 9 to deal drain in stun.

3) Drain Management: I'm thinking a rating 5 centering focus, but what else works for a Chaos Mage? Or should I go with a charisma tradition as an elf and dump physical stats?

4) Spells: Increase Reflexes, Increased Attribute (Agility? Intuition? Body?), the obligatory Stunbolt or Manabolt, then I'm not sure. Mob Control/Mob Mind/ the single target versions maybe?

5) The things I'm missing after I get a little advice on the above, which I'm sure won't take long on these awesome forums.
« Last Edit: <04-15-16/1140:11> by bangbangtequila »

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #1 on: <04-15-16/1201:31> »
1) Probably not
2) It can be worth it if you use a lot of direct spells, but there are better things to do with your Karma - Focused Concentration for example
3) Get a Health Sustain Focus instead and use it to sustain WIL and INT improvement
4) Your spells are good. Get Combat Sense, Levitate, Ball Lightning, Physical Barrier, Heal, Detox
5) Detox + Drugs is a good way to go about your business - Psyche will be especially useful to you. Combine it with a Power Focus and you don't even need a Sustaining Focus
talk think matrix

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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #2 on: <04-15-16/1241:01> »
Can you sustain multiple spells from the same type one one focus? It doesn't say anything about it in the core book. If so, a health and a manipulation focus would both be absolutely essential to throw up a massive boost to drain resistance and let me control the field with ease. Nope. One per focus.

I've gone with an allergy to opiate based painkillers as a severe allergy, so any run of the mill medical team or hospital treating him would likely kill him if they administer painkillers. I figure the lack of facing this issue every day would be offset by not only the severity of the reaction, but by the dire consequences of it coming up in situations in which it may occur. I wanted to get a second opinion on the balance of this.
« Last Edit: <04-15-16/1315:03> by bangbangtequila »

Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #3 on: <04-15-16/1629:41> »
Actually, if you are going to run combat spells, especially direct, witness my hate is a good on to have. If you don't want to use the drug idea, two low rating health sustaining foci with reagents can help raise your drain pool (2 because one for drain stat (intuition) and the other for improve reflexes). Focus Concentration is also a needed quality so you can sustain another spell. Uses area crowd control spells over the singular versions. Take advantage of elf's high stats and go shaman and be a secondary face. As far as mundane combat, automatic overall is a better option than melee, due to the stats, skills, and PQs needed for good m/optimized melee characters (max agility, high strength, high body, high will, max melee skill (plus specializations), and usually agile defender). That said, melee mages can be done well, just use different build setups. Another option would be use the spellblade spell, but it needs a major overall rules wise.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for ¥1 million/4 once.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #4 on: <04-20-16/1652:42> »
I have a vested interest in this because I'm one of the other PCs in this game and I need said magician to provide magical overwatch.

The great thing about Prime Runner is that you can get a lot of nuyen at Resource E, which frees up some priorities. That will make being an elf magician a lot easier. Of course, foci will eat up Resources E pretty quickly too. Remember that we get a free fake SIN from the GM's chargen rules so that will save you ten grand right there.

We have combat, B&E, and social skills well-covered by the group, so don't worry about those.

Here's my wishlist for things for the magician to cover:

1) Spellcasting
2) Counterspelling
3) Summoning
4) Assensing

You'll of course need Sneaking and Perception too but don't try to cram too much more in or you'll find yourself stretched too thinly.

For spells, you'll start with 10 if you take Magic A and it might be worth it to pick up 2 extra spells if you can find the karma for it. There are several threads on the forum for people looking for advice if you want to do some research. I would recommend these no matter what:

- one direct damage spell (stunbolt, manabolt, etc.)
- one AOE indirect damage spell (lightning ball, fireball, etc.)
- Heal

After that, other good options include Levitate, Magic Fingers, Physical Mask, Trid Phantasm, and/or Improved Invisibility. For your own survivability, Increase Reflexes, Increase Intuition, and Combat Sense are all good choices, probably in that order. Alternatively, you can get Detox and go the pharmaceutical route like Jack_Spade suggests. Also very viable.

Depending on your background and whether the character is a dedicated vampire hunter or just a shadowrunner who needed the work, vampire-specific spells like Sunbeam (from Shadow Spells) and Detect Vampire could be fun and highly useful.

A rating 3 Power Focus is great if you can swing it, but if it's too much then rating 2 is also very good. You can have up to 6 rating points of foci without risking foci addiction (presuming your Magic rating is 6), so I would try to get a sustaining focus for the remainder of what you have available. So either Power 3 + Sustaining 3 (24 karma total, ¥66,000) or Power 2 + Sustaining 4 (20 karma, ¥52,000).

Mentor spirits are a good value. Focused Concentration is great too if you don't go the drug route, but I know things are going to get tight. Remember that we start with 35 karma for Prime Runner. Let's say you take 25 karma of negative qualities too, which means 60 karma total to spend:

Foci: 24 karma
Mentor Spirit: 5 karma
2 extra spells: 10 karma
Focus Concentration IV: 16 karma

That's 55ish karma, leaving a handful for conversion to nuyen or a couple rating 1 skills. I would probably skip Witness My Hate unless you decide to go heavy into the Direct damage spells (which is a perfectly viable approach, especially for dodgy bastards like vampires). If you go Race D for Elf, you might want to find 10 karma for an extra point of Edge. Either pick up some more negative qualities (since Prime Runner lets you pile on 35 karma worth) or start trimming back here and there.

bangbangtequila

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« Reply #5 on: <04-21-16/1729:33> »
Nice! Well it'll be great to be a part!

I think I'm already quite in line with your proposed spending patterns. I've picked out my spells and such and set out most of my skills and such. I'll put a draft up and then post in the OOC

bangbangtequila

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« Reply #6 on: <05-11-16/1514:42> »
Here's my final character, feel free to nit pick, but I'm dead set on staying an elf despite losing out on 3 extra edge.

== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Flickr
Movement: 10/20
Karma: 17
Street Cred: 1
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf Male
Height 188cm Weight 80kg
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 8
Nuyen: 2675

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D(1) - Human or Elf
Attributes: B(3) - 20 Attributes
Special: A(4) - Magician or Technomancer
Skills: C(2) - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: E(0) - 100,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 5
REA: 5
STR: 1
CHA: 3
INT: 6
LOG: 3
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                11 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative:         11 + 1d6
Astral Initiative:         12 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative:      11 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    6 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     6 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  4
Mental:                    6
Social:                    6
   Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral:                    6

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 2
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Assensing                  : 6                      Pool: 12
Automatics                 : 6                      Pool: 11
Binding                    : 6                      Pool: 15
Blades                     : 1                      Pool: 6
Clubs                      : 1                      Pool: 6
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Con                        : 0                      Pool: 2
Counterspelling            : 5                      Pool: 11
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 2
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 2
Disguise                   : 0                      Pool: 5
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 2
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 4
Etiquette                  : 1                      Pool: 4
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Free-Fall                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Gymnastics                 : 1                      Pool: 6
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 4
Impersonation              : 0                      Pool: 2
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 2
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 2
Leadership                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 4
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 5
Negotiation                : 1                      Pool: 4
Perception                 : 3                      Pool: 9
Performance                : 0                      Pool: 2
Pilot Ground Craft         : 0                      Pool: 4
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 4
Pistols                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 2
Sneaking                   : 1                      Pool: 6
Spellcasting               : 6                      Pool: 15
Summoning                  : 6                      Pool: 15
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 4
Swimming                   : 1                      Pool: 2
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 4
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 5
Unarmed Combat             : 1                      Pool: 6

== Knowledge Skills ==
Biology                    : 2                      Pool: 5
Magical Threats            : 2                      Pool: 5
Military                   : 2 [Special Forces]     Pool: 8 (10)
Religion                   : 1 [Christianity]       Pool: 4 (6)
Security Tactics           : 2                      Pool: 5
Small Unit Tactics         : 4                      Pool: 10
Sperethiel                 : 3                      Pool: 9

== Contacts ==
Seamus O'Connell; Seattle/Tir Na Nog; Talismonger (6, 3)

== Qualities ==
Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Opiates (Common Painkillers))
Distinctive Style
Focused Concentration (Rating 5)
Incompetent (Cracking)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
SINner (National) (Tir Na Nog)
Witness My Hate

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Chaos, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (11))
Ball Lightning             DV: F-1
Combat Sense               DV: F
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (INT) DV: F-3
Increase Reflexes          DV: F
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Mob Control                DV: F+1
Physical Barrier           DV: F-1
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Home Sweet Home  3 months

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        12
Ballistic Mask                      2
   +Gas Mask
   +Thermographic Vision
Full Body Armor                     15
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Thermal Damping 3

== Weapons ==
Ares Alpha
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Shock Pad
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   Pool: 11   Accuracy: 7   DV: 11P   AP: -2   RC: 8
Minigrenade: High Explosive
   Pool: 4   Accuracy: 0   DV: 16P (-2/m)   AP: -2   RC: 2
Remington Suppressor
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Sound Suppressor
   Pool: 11   Accuracy: 6   DV: 7P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Extended Clip
   +Gas-Vent 2 System
   +Laser Sight
   Pool: 11   Accuracy: 5   DV: 7P   AP: -   RC: 4
Survival Knife
   Pool: 6   Accuracy: 5   DV: 3P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 6   Accuracy: 4   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)

== Gear ==
Ammo: APDS (Assault Rifles) x100
Ammo: APDS (Machine Pistols) x100
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Assault Rifles) x100
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Machine Pistols) x100
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Assault Rifles) x500
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x500
Contacts Rating 3
   +Smartlink
   +Flare Compensation
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 1
Earbuds Rating 3
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 6
Minigrenade: High Explosive x6
Power Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 3
Psyche x10
Reagents, per dram x200
Subvocal Mic

Tecumseh

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« Reply #7 on: <05-12-16/0115:39> »
Did you decide to sustain Increase Attribute [INT] with Psyche then, freeing up Focused Concentration for Improved Reflexes or Combat Sense? The Psyche will last for a nice, long time at least.

bangbangtequila

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« Reply #8 on: <05-12-16/0343:22> »
In general, I'll just use it and take the dp penalty, because I won't need more than 13 dice on any average day, but in combat-expected situations I will need to sustain 3-4 spells at a time and therefore be using psyche to hold them all. An auto-injector might be necessary, and I'll be looking at putting a relevant system in the full body armour.

Tarislar

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« Reply #9 on: <05-13-16/0153:16> »
I'd tweak as follows.....

Do you have to be Priority or can you do Sum-2-10?


Magic-A
Attr-B   (A in S2T)
Meta-C
Cash-D  (E in S2T)
Skills-E


BOD: 3
AGI: 3 or 5
REA: 4 or 5
STR: 1
WIL: 5
LOG: 2 or 3
INT: 5
CHA: 8
EDG: 4  (Yep, 4 Edge, for life saving & taking opportunities)
MAG: 6


Focus on these with your 28 points to cover the main core of what the group needs most.  (Raw Magic)
Assensing                  : 3                     
Binding                    : 6                     
Counterspelling            : 6         
Spellcasting  (Combat+2)             : 6
Summoning                  : 6                   
+
Perception                 : 1                 (With Karma if any remaining)
Sneaking                   : 1                 (With Karma if any remaining)


No room for the rest of this.  Buy low levels of them after runs.
Automatics                 : 6                      Pool: 11
Blades                     : 1                      Pool: 6
Clubs                      : 1                      Pool: 6
Etiquette                  : 1                      Pool: 4
Gymnastics                 : 1                      Pool: 6
Negotiation                : 1                      Pool: 4
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 2
Swimming                   : 1                      Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat             : 1                      Pool: 6


Seamus O'Connell; Seattle/Tir Na Nog; Talismonger (6, 3)          (Your limited to 7 points per contact)

Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Opiates (Common Painkillers))
Distinctive Style
Focused Concentration (Rating 5)
Incompetent (Cracking)                    (No GM should EVER let a Mage get away with taking that skill choice)
Witness My Hate

24 Positive / 25 Negative =
Focused Concentration-1
Jack of all Trades
Mentor Spirit
Spirit Whisperer
Trust Fund - Medium
Creature of Comfort - Medium
Day Job     (You still get called on for jobs for the Tir)
SINner-National


(Tradition: Chaos, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (11))   Charisma (13) 
Ball Lightning             DV: F-1  Blast     (AE Knockout because you don't need to kill every MF in the room)
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3    Lighning Bolt    (Overcast at higher force or w/ less Drain than AE Version & can hammer Vees/Drones)
Increase [Attribute] (INT) DV: F-3   Inc Willpower  (Increasing Drain Dice still while Increasing Stun Boxes too)
Mob Control                DV: F+1   Control Thoughts    (Sustained AE spells are a pain in the rules)
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Physical Barrier           DV: F-1


I split the stats based on if you can go Sum-2-10
Either way you have 100K (150K) to play with for several Foci & 22/26 Karma to bind them.

bangbangtequila

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« Reply #10 on: <05-13-16/1019:31> »
Yeah you completely tore the entire concept apart and turned him into something mundane and boring, and I strongly disagree with some of your changes. Such as increase willpower. I went with Intuition because it affects initiative, perception, all defence rolls, judge intentions, basically every major roll.

Again, I'm not changing my tradition. Charisma is nowhere near as useful.

I'll change incompetent. That's s fair point. It's one of those "I left this on chummer then forgot about it" things

I appreciate the effort here, but this character is just one dimensional and bland. It's only marginally better at being a magician but gives up being good at anything else. I may reconsider some qualities and modify my spell list (WMH is useless, and mana spells aren't useful enough compared to lightning bolt and flamethrower). This is a very optimized build, but min/maxing really hurts in a game where versatility is so valuable. I guess the social side of your version is much better, but why would an ex spec ops warrior be super social haha

I do appreciate the effort. I can't stress that enough. Looking over a second opinion is always great for fine tuning a concept.