[Lysanderz]

So I'm stuck at a table where I disagree with one of the more vocal and leading personalities (Player, not character) on a regular basis. He seems to be determined to head in certain directions in our free-style game and maybe it's me or my character, who can tell, but I am just not satisfied with the situation. To leave means abandoning a game I've been a part of for the last 7 years and to stay is to continue to be frustrated. Basically any time I try to play something that is more than dumb muscle, I am shoehorned into doing whatever this person and his friend think sounds interesting and most of the time I end up bored.

If I play dumb muscle, I'm just there to roll dice and don't really do much else.

The GM understands my frustrations, a couple other players understand my frustration, but any attempts to confront the other player results in him agreeing that he isn't the leader of the group or him getting extra defensive and borderline shut down. His friend feels bad, since he makes it seem like we're attacking him for something he doesn't do, but I honestly don't know...... what to do with it all.

HELP ME PLEASE

[Raiderjoseph]

What do the other players feel about this guy?

[Lysanderz]

It's one of those that several people are frustrated but in all honesty, he's our friend and we don't want to push him out. Instead, it feels like it's time for me to leave but I hate to think of leaving my regular table afterror 7 years.

[fseperent]

You're in a pretty bad spot.
It sounds like this person and his friend don't respect the fact that you want to be more than dumb muscle.
Given the previous attempts at confrontation, it looks like a zero-win situation.
A game that has lasted 7 years is a huge time investment.
I would recommend taking a week away from the table to get away from the frustration and think things through.
Hate to see a game that has gone as long as that break apart without due thought.

[Lysanderz]

Yeah, I've been with these guys forever and through about a dozen campaigns with these players.

It's been a mild to moderate problem the entire time, I'm just hitting my limit.

[FST_Gemstar]

Character switch week?

Maybe a dream sequence/some kind of astral or foundation quest where you body swap/or just to do it. Stakes should be low. Maybe someone's initiation? Maybe with higher rewards for figuring out how everyone can participate well. It may be a little sour, but it could also be an opportunity to get a feel how other people play characters or to see characters played a different way.

Or a few weeks of rotating GMs. Gives your GM an opportunity to play a character (or one of the team's characters) while players have to take a break from the action a bit and see the big picture.

Or a meta-gaming conversation about where the campaign is going. It's ok if it's free-form, but it doesn't change the principal that players are playing characters, and players should have a say in how their team interacts and how things move. If it's not fun for you, it's less fun for everyone.

[Lysanderz]

I dunno, maybe it's time to get a new group.

I hate to leave them behind, but if my next conversation about it is as unproductive as past conversations then I don't see what else I can do.

[Jack_Spade]

Have you tried GMing yourself? Or asked the problem player to GM a bit? That might be preferable to leaving the game.

How exactly are you shoehorned IP? What kind of actions are you dissatisfied with?

[AwesomenessDog]

How large is the group, you make it seem bigger than four. Generally speaking, the larger the group, the more "shoehorning" party roles become: Muscle, Hacker, Mage, etc. are all covered usually by less people than there are roles to fill which helps with character diversity, but if the group becomes larger, what your describing easily becomes possible. I'm not saying you should leave because the group gets too big, just trying to make a fair assessment without a whole lot of information.

If the only role that's left is the muscle, then you certainly can play a muscle and not make him the dumb muscle. Find something someone else in the party already has covered and double down, then ask your GM for more runs where the party has to split and two of whatever becomes necessary. Even if you make a dumb muscle, intentionally play him dumb; a character with a flaw is more fun than a character with none. So what if other players get mad at you for not being perfect and potentially hurting (through in/failed-action) their characters, they'll get over it.

I like the idea already mentioned with "body swapping" but I am a little iffy on how fair that is to other players. I am assuming you are getting a different character because of death, is that correct? If so, it might be a good idea to talk with a player who has a role your're interested in and wouldn't mind a muscle character and have him bite the bullet with you next time. As someone who hates losing players for both personal and RP related reasons, i would suggest that there is always a solution, and usually it's calm confrontation of the issue.

[Lysanderz]

So we have 6 people (including me) and we rotate between me, problem player, and PP Friend.

It's not a role issue, it's exclusively a motivation/goal/plan problem. It's a constant feeling that his feelings and hangups are the guidelines we have to follow.

For instance, our team currently consists of: Neo-anarchist mercenary sniper (me), Hooding phys-adept cab driver (PP), Street Shaman (PP Friend), Mercenary Troll, hobgoblin hacker, and ex-civilian doctor blackmailed by triads.

We (gob hacker, me, doc) want to solve the triad problem, PP just continues to talk about building this false company that the neo anarchist and Hob Hacker want almost nothing to do with because if we wanted to work for a company of any kind, we'd have joined a company.

But anytime I try to have any sort of opinion or personality, it sort of just goes "oh yeah, I get that. But we are gonna do this."

The table is usually split, but character wise doesn't really have the opportunity to do much. What's worse is on the rare occasions where we strong arm him into giving up what he wants to do, he sort of just sinks into his chair and poit's and detaches.

A lot of the table just give in to his fits and let him run amok, myself included. I haven't been interested in what's going on with the game in the last 3 months. Usually when I get sick of trying I put a character on the shelf and pick up some genetic troll/orc muscle and just go "sure, whatever you want. I roll X"

When I gm, his friend seems to counterbalance him. But it's like the rest of the table doesn't have that level of respect, and his friend won't reign him in as a gm because they're friends and tend to feed off of each other.

So in the last seven years, the only time I really get to play a character is when PP is a gm, which he is sick of doing at the moment.

[AwesomenessDog]

Best and simplest option looks to be you taking permanent manning of the helm and just gm.

Other options include letting him start and then slamming him with the notoriety hammer for starting a business as a shadowrunner. He won't stay running for long since no one will give him a job and will at best fall into NPC status; new character and then he shouldn't be trying to build a store. You could just put it to an IC vote to oust him from the running group as a liability. Hva ehis company get bought out by greedy corporate legal hounds and make him want to join the Neo-anarchist squad.

Bowing down to him and changing your character to match his wishes is the worst option in all cases. No matter what he does, he doesn't control your character and he cannot stop you from doing your own thing while he does his IC short of him backstabbing you (which once again will hit him with the notoriety hammer harder than the 80s to walls.)

[Reaver]

To me, it sounds like you have 2 problems, the Problem Player, and his enabling friend.

SO, your choices are:

Status Quo: Keep you mouth shut, play the trog muscle, and waste your time and evening doing something you're not enjoying.

Be the GM fulltime: which means you won't be playing as a character anytime soon, but will give you a chance to flex your creative muscles as the controller of a whole story full of Mary Sues (and what story isn't )
    But I also get the feeling from your explanation that this is just really shuffling the problem off onto the rest of the group.....

Leave: Go off on your own and form a new playing group or find an other in your area. People change, and so too do their tastes and wants in a game. Nothing wrong with this, just be honest with the rest that you are not enjoying yourself any longer and are going off to seek a game table more inline with your play style. Be open, honest and friendly with the reasons you are leaving. You never know, after a few months break, you may find that you miss this table and playstyle and want to come back. (so don't burn any bridges)

Kick him to the curb: Simply get rid of the problem player. Yes he may be your friend, but if he is dragging down 4 out of 6 people at the table.... well he better smarten up or ship out! If no one is enjoying themselves, why are you playing?? This may mean you have to eject his buddy too... so be it.  I get that you are all friends, but you don't have to do everything together And like I said earlier, people change... And he (or the rest of you) may have changed enough that his play style is no longer welcome at your table.

Hope it works out for you.

[Jack_Spade]

Regarding AwesomenessDog's idea:

That's worth a shot.

Let him achieve his dream while you GM. Make sure to give him some spreadsheets about taxes, healthcare, security and OSHA compliance.
Having a run centered on filing your taxes can be fun - if you are not just dumb muscle.

Likewise, try to get one of the others to GM - after 7 years they should really get up and show some engagement. 

[PiXeL01]

Another option is going completely Neo-Anarchist on his dreams and sabotage it during the making of it, and should he succeed then from within. The corps are the reason why the world is going to hell anyway so stopping him joining their exploitive ranks would do the world a favor.  You would just be playing your character after all.

That or simply leave. It sounds like he wants to be the protagonist and the rest of you just the supporting cast. Part with them on friendly terms, but be clear about your reasons for leaving.

[Lysanderz]

I feel like if I sabotage the company it will be seen as a player being petty and torpedoing the game.

I think I'm just gonna seek out the helm and let this idea play out. Eventually shadows aren't gonna accept them any more as he becomes just another security company.