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Did anyone work out percentages for the awakened population?

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Medicineman

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« Reply #45 on: <05-22-16/0650:10> »
Than it's our Job as Oldschoolplayers to set up an example and play awakened Unique and Memorable.
anyway its more a Fluff or Style question to make a distinction between a shaman and Hermetic ...even between 2 Hermetics
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brasso

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« Reply #46 on: <05-22-16/1628:57> »
Just found this thread and I kind of like the break down of about 0.25% of the population being functional awakened (mage, adept, etc). Which makes them only slightly less rare than lawyers (0.36% in 2016 USA) - I got slated for saying this in some other thread, but it seems about right.

This does mean, however, that each corp in a city would be able to have several hundred or so awakend on their payroll if they could afford it, and so wished. Of course, this would probably be overkill, but it kind of makes a mockery of the "rare" mage - they're just not.

In another thread, a GM asked what kind of jobs awakened might do, and the list was endless - everything from astral travel agent to movie special effects, I personally think every VIP with any secrets to keep would have their own counterspelling bodyguard to prevent mind magic spying and the like. In short, I think magic in the 6th world is everywhere.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #47 on: <05-23-16/0110:44> »
mages (full mages with agood MAG rating) ARE Rare ! but not for the Megacorps
THAT is part of the Dystopia.
And ImO really good Deckers (Skills 7 + )  with a really good Deck ( 1/2 Mio ¥ up) are also just as rare outside the Corps !

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Senko

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« Reply #48 on: <05-23-16/1338:42> »
I'm sure someone mentioned once that in an earlier edition there was an adept power that let them astrally project it was just at a greatly reduced time something like 1 minute per magic point.

I agree that the percentage values argue against rare mage but I can still see the general population not really knowing what they're capable of. Its the difference between there are firms of lawyer in my town and I know a laywer. Sure finding one if you need too may be pretty easy especially if your working for a major corp who'd have them on staff but most people may never actually meet one and even fewer see them using their magic on a regular basis. However a lot of people would have seen Gandulf in lord or the rings or the upcoming world of warcraft movie or the upcoming dr strange movie or insert other movie/tv show/book about magicians wielding vast powers and occaasionally swords and other weapons.
« Last Edit: <05-23-16/1346:59> by Senko »

Beta

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« Reply #49 on: <05-23-16/1432:31> »
The way I see it, there are four factors that makes the classic runner mage fairly unusual:

1) scope of magic. As said above, some of the 1% may not have achieved noticeable abilities, some are physical adepts, some are aspected. 

2) power of magic.  I tend to assume that amongst those 1% awakened, distribution of base magic is similar to any other attribute.  In other words, most awakened have a magic of about 3 if they haven't put in a lot of effort to improve it.  (Granted that most would have had good incentive to do so)

3) Traditions and mentor spirits.  Some people may be flexible in what tradition they follow, or what totem they relate to .... but some people are strongly pulled in a specific way, and more have only limited flexibility.  Some will never find instructions in a tradition that is meaningful to them (part of why the 1% are not all active), some will follow a tradition or mentor spirit that doesn't work so well in a corporate setting, or in some cases with people in general.

4) General competence as a mage.  There will be some with low willpower, or called to shamanic magic but with low charisma.  Or their personality makes them poor at studying and learning certain skills, including magical ones (a hermetic mage with severe dyslexia may learn skills and spells more slowly).

Unfortunately in first edition, there was one sort of magical character in the core rules: magic 6, access to all magic skills.(although not as powerful as current magicians), and of course most players would set skills and attributes to maximize their magical effectiveness.  So it set as the norm the most extraordinary case.

I think where the lawyer comparison doesn't work is that tbere are many people who could be lawyers, and only a select portion of them are allowed to become lawyers, so that those who do are generally fairly talented in that regard, and reasonably likely to stay as lawyers.  It might be better to look at the tallest 1% of the population and look at how good they are at basketball, or something like that.

Reaver

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« Reply #50 on: <05-23-16/1529:23> »
I find the lawyer agrument a little flawed.... Just because I don't think the number of lawyers is that low.
It may be that's the number of lawyers with their name on a door, but ALL practicing lawyers? No. Much too low.

I know corporations that have TEAMS of private lawyers numbering into the many dozens. (Bechtel, KBR, Chemco, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch )


Someone compared the number of awakened once to the number of doctors in the US, I find that is probably closer.
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MijRai

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« Reply #51 on: <05-23-16/1607:37> »
The number of lawyers and doctors are close to the same, Reaver.  Per million, comes out to between 2,000-3,500.  Haven't looked at the exact numbers recently, though.  It's a pretty specialized job, all in all. 

Keep in mind, that's just the lawyers, not everyone in a legal profession.  Just like the doctor comparison is just to doctors, not everyone in the medical field.   
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Fizzygoo

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« Reply #52 on: <05-23-16/1744:09> »
I find the lawyer agrument a little flawed.... Just because I don't think the number of lawyers is that low.
It may be that's the number of lawyers with their name on a door, but ALL practicing lawyers? No. Much too low.

I know corporations that have TEAMS of private lawyers numbering into the many dozens. (Bechtel, KBR, Chemco, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch )

Someone compared the number of awakened once to the number of doctors in the US, I find that is probably closer.

U.S. Lawyers divided by U.S. Population = 0.4%

U.S. Doctors divided by U.S. Population  = 0.3%

Number of magic-capable metahumans divided by 2050's population = 1.0%
Number of trained full-magician-capable metahumans divided by 2050's population = 0.1%
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Reaver

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« Reply #53 on: <05-23-16/1846:46> »
Hmmm, interesting.
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Beta

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« Reply #54 on: <05-23-16/1858:57> »


U.S. Lawyers divided by U.S. Population = 0.4%

U.S. Doctors divided by U.S. Population  = 0.3%

Number of magic-capable metahumans divided by 2050's population = 1.0%
Number of trained full-magician-capable metahumans divided by 2050's population = 0.1%

By 2075 I'd expect the number to be up in the doctor/lawyer range -- they've been aggressively searching out talented kids since at least the fifties, magical education has gotten much better, more traditions are understood, etc.  Although maybe the biggest increase is in identifying and making use of lesser talents.

Fizzygoo

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« Reply #55 on: <05-23-16/2141:18> »
By 2075 I'd expect the number to be up in the doctor/lawyer range

Awakenings: New Magic In 2057 (2nd ed), ...about one person in a hundred has enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only about one in ten are fully capable magicians...Approximately three to four million fully capable magicians exist today... under the "rising each year" entry, it says, "According to the 2055 World Census, the percentage of magically active persons in the world rose .43 percent since the previous year's survey."

So ~ 1 in a 100 are magically capable. ~ 1 in 1000 are fully capable magicians. There are 3.5 million (average of 3 to 4) fully capable magicians. Then the population of the world in 2057 (and in 2050 since the numbers don't change) is ~ 3.5 billion.

Then.

If 1.0% rose by 0.43%, then 1.0% + (1.0% * 0.43%) = 1.0043% of the population is magically active the next year.

Extrapolating: 1.0% in 2055, 0.43% growth each year (assuming held steady/continued-to-grow-on-average) until 2075: 1.08961% of the population is magically capable in 2075 (1.01% to round up).

So based on the data given in canon, while the growth rate of the magically active is growing (at least between 2050 to 2057), it is still about 1/4 the percentage of lawyers in 2016. And technically that 1.01% is a hard cap. It's not fully capable magicians...that's ~10% of the 1.01%, the 1.01% is all metahumans with a Magic attribute (since the 2055 World Census is "percentage of magically active persons in the world rose .43 percent ", not "magically trained full magicians"). So the best society (i.e. corps, education, knowledge of traditions, etc.) can do is max out at the 1.01%; optimize 100% of all magically capable people...the totality of which is still around 1.01% of the population.

But since there hasn't been much data since those books, nothing wrong with quadrupling the population of magically active in one's own game. Or quartering it. Maybe the passing of Halley's Comet boosted the rate, or the closing off of the astral bridge slowed the growth rate...until canon states something else.../shrug.

tl;dr: Expectations are often dashed upon the rocky shores of data examined but imagination goes where it wills.
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MijRai

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« Reply #56 on: <05-24-16/0003:31> »
Full Magician also doesn't factor in Aspected Magicians or Adepts, which are still functional.  This is why .25% is probably a bit more accurate, or .2% is if the 50/50 split between mages and adepts is valid. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Fizzygoo

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« Reply #57 on: <05-24-16/0101:42> »
Full Magician also doesn't factor in Aspected Magicians or Adepts, which are still functional.  This is why .25% is probably a bit more accurate, or .2% is if the 50/50 split between mages and adepts is valid.

Sounds reasonable to me :)
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Senko

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« Reply #58 on: <05-24-16/0344:45> »
There's also the question for me of whether that increasing number mentioned is an increase in the numbers of magically capable people or the numbers of fully trained/actively capable magicians or part thereof. That is 2050 magic potential = 1%, 2070 magic potential = 3% vs 2050 magic potential = 1%/trained = 0.01%, 2070 magic potential = 1%/trained = 0.03%. If you see what I mean the percentage of magically capable individuals hasn't increased but the amount inside that who are found and tained has.

Rosa

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« Reply #59 on: <05-24-16/0616:53> »
Well if you have countries where the number of awakened in the general population goes as high as 3-4% ( which we have, the different awakened nationas mostly ), then that pretty much shows that the 1,0 % or 1,01 or whatever it is in 2075 is not a hard cap, so maybe the number of potentially magically capable people in the population hasn't gone up, but the 1% is far from the actual number of magically capable people in the population. But for game purposes that number will stay pretty much the same globally speaking.
« Last Edit: <05-24-16/0621:07> by Rosa »