[JmOz01]

Working on something to help out a new face player.  What advice do you have for him?   Especialy on role playing the meets with mr j

[fseperent]

Have all the skills in the Acting and Influence skill groups.
Have a good suit or dress for every price bracket 100-1000, 1000-2500, 2500-5000, 5000+.
Have to be able to blend in anywhere.
Remember, you're selling a product.
In this case, runners and equipment.
On that note, Mr. Johnsons want to spend as little on you as they can so they can take what they don't pay you for themselves.
Keep the weapons at home, and NO magic use.
Professionalism gets more repeat business than anything.

Rough ideas, but should help out.

[adzling]

Physical Adepts make the best faces.

Forget Performance, who needs that "social" skill?!?

If you just want to interact with Johnson's all you need is Negotiation and maybe Etiquette.

A full time face would want to take Con as well, maybe Intimidation and Impersonation depending upon his focus.

In descending order of importance:
Max Charisma
Be an Elf.
Be a Physical Adept
Get Tailored Pheromones 3.
Consider the First Impression, Profiler and Consummate Professional Qualities for better 'Facing.
Negotiation: Bargaining
Con: Fastalk
Etiquette: Corporate
Impersonation
Intimidation: Interrogation
Get a nice suit.

[JmOz01]

On my phone...short

I know how to build.  I'm looking for advice to play.  Thx for what has been said already

[Beta]

Have a personality.  There is no one true way to be good at working with people, so there is a lot of scope here.  The point is that this is the characters 'thing' so invest it with some depth and character    Think about background, other skills, qualities etc that might shape how your particular Face sees the world.

[JmOz01]

Have all the skills in the Acting and Influence skill groups.
Have a good suit or dress for every price bracket 100-1000, 1000-2500, 2500-5000, 5000+.
Have to be able to blend in anywhere.
Remember, you're selling a product.
In this case, runners and equipment.
On that note, Mr. Johnsons want to spend as little on you as they can so they can take what they don't pay you for themselves.
Keep the weapons at home, and NO magic use.
Professionalism gets more repeat business than anything.

Rough ideas, but should help out.

OKay, I am at home now.  My character, Back-up, has been facing for the group however he is not designed to be "The Face" (or anything else honestly).  My son is joining the game as a Elven, Max Charisma, Mage (not Mystic Adept).  He will have 13 dice in 4 important Face Skills (Con, Leadership, Etiquette and Bargaining)  plus first impression (so 15 in most cases).  No magic involved (Back-up uses an Increase Charisma spell).  The main goal of this is to help him develop some interpersonal skills in a friendly environment as he is socially stunted (some developmental delays and other IEP type issues, he is 24 but thinks like a 15 year old)

So I am looking for a few things that he should make sure he remembers to do (Get information about the job, Try to talk him up in pay, don't offend him, etc...) to make a list to help him out.  I also will be doing that for combat.  I will post his character in a few minutes.  He did not do great on his first run as a Face and this will help him out. 

[adzling]

The number one thing in dealing / negotiating with people IRL is to figure what motivates him, either through profiling in advance or discovery while chatting to him.
(money, fame, success, love, etc).

Then you'll know the levers that you can pull to manipulate your mark/ johnson.

It also helps to know all the basic, common Cons people typically employ:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks

[Coyote]

I like MysAds far more than PhysAds for Faces, they have a few spells that are very useful. Just for starters, a Focused Concentration 5 plus Increase Charisma can push a 5-Charisma character to 9. Another bonus is the Detox spell which allows you to use Novacoke without worrying about the crash. While there are several Adept powers that add up to the spell, having Physical Mask means that you don't have to take all of those. Conversely, you could take just Facial Sculpture plus the Makeover spell, and change hair color, add makeup, etc, to mimic having the other disguise powers, and since Makeover is a permanent spell you don't have to sustain anything.

Good Agility and Palming skill is useful as you will often want to appear unarmed. Here, again, it helps being a MysAd so that you can Summon spirits or throw spells, so that you don't have to carry weapons around.

Some other things that are usually bypassed are surveillance and countersurveillance equipment. A Face is more often involved in the kind of situations where you want to avoid eavesdroppers than most other characters, so carry some tools of the trade... jammers, white noise generators, etc. Again, a MysAd has the option to take Astral Barrier to protect against astral snooping. On this vein, it doesn't cost much to carry a couple of Fly Spys or similar small drones, and use them as sentries when having a meeting. Or as hidden sentries under your vehicle, since you don't want people planting bugs on your vehicles when you show up to a meeting.

As for the actual gameplay, I think that one very important and undermentioned thing is this.... all Faces know, or learn, to ask for more money (Negotiation). What they do not always know to ask is far more useful: more information. All Johnsons are going to want to limit the information that they give out that relates to THEM, but many Johnsons will be willing to give out more information or answer questions regarding the target, as they usually want the run to succeed almost as much as you do. However, for time purposes and to spur roleplaying, GMs will almost never just give out everything that the Johnson knows in the base mission briefing. You have to dig for more. Ask questions about the target, what security they have, have they had recent incidents, etcetera. Sure, you can find that out with a Matrix Search.... but why waste some hours when the Johnson may have the same information already available? On that vein, have the Face use some communication device, 'trodes, a micro-transceiver, etc, so that they can communicate with any members of their team that are not there. The Face may not know to ask a particular question about Matrix-based security, while the party's Decker might, so giving the rest of the team a way to ask questions of the Johnson, even 2nd hand, is useful... and keeps the rest of the players engaged... and backs up the Face's player in case he forgets to ask a basic question or something.

[JmOz01]

Charm
METATYPE: ELF
B 3, A 3, R 2, S 2, W 5, L 2, I 4, C 8, ESS 6, EDG 1, M 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 11
Armor: 12
Limits: Physical 3, Mental 5, Social 9
Physical Initiative: 6+1D6
Astral Initiative: 8+3D6
Active Skills: Alchemy (Contact +2) 6, Arcana 1, Archery (Crossbows +2) 6, Assensing 6, Athletics Group 1, Con 3, Counterspelling 6, Influence Group 5, Perception (Visual +2) 2, Sneaking (Urban +2) 5, Spellcasting (Illusion Spells +2) 6, Summoning 2
Knowledge Skills: Magical Theory 6
Languages: English N, Sperethiel 6
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Day Job (1,000¥/month, 10 hrs/week), First Impression, Focused Concentration (2), Incompetent: Firearms Group, Mentor Spirit: Dragonslayer, Path of the Wheel Magician, SINner (Corporate Limited SIN): Horizon
Spells: Increase Reflexes (limited), Magic Fingers, Manabolt, Trid Phantasm (limited)
Alchemical Preparations: Ball Lightning, Combat Sense, Death Touch, Heal, Knockout, Shatter
Gear:
. . Alchemy gear
. . Alchemy Toolkit
. . Armor Jacket w/ Fire Resistance (6), Nonconductivity (6)
. . Armor Vest
. . Certified Credstick, Standard
. . Fetish: Increase Reflexes
. . Fetish: Trid Phantasm
. . Glasses (4) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Electronic
. . Identity: Specify Name w/ (0 months) Day Job, (1 month) Low Lifestyle
. . Metal Restraints
. . Micro-Tranceiver
. . Quiver
. . Sony Angel
Weapons:
. . Heavy Crossbow [Crossbow, Acc 7, DV 12P, AP -4, 4 (m)] w/ (8x) Barbed Bolt, (8x) Explosive Bolt, Gecko Grip, (4x) Hammerhead Bolt, Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Internal
. . Ranger Sliver Pistol Crossbow [Crossbow, Acc 9, DV 6P, AP -1, 1] w/ (5x) Barbed Bolt, (5x) Bolt, (5x) Explosive Bolt, Gecko Grip, Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Internal, (5x) Stick-n-Shock Bolt w/Static Shaft
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 4, Loyalty 3)
Government Official (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Knight Errant Dispatcher (Connection 3, Loyalty 2)
Talismonger (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)

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[Glyph]

A good face needs to keep what other people want in mind.  That way, he can pretend to empathize with them, fool them into thinking he's doing them a favor, and fool them into thinking that they're getting what they want, or at least as much of it as is feasible.  The face flatters them (but subtly - don't be a bootlicker), exaggerates how much a concession costs him, and works at keeping things friendly.  Make an initial effort to fit in (leathers in a biker bar; suit and tie in an upscale restaurant), and pretend to have things in common with your opponent - talk about Italian food with the Don, etc.

Say it's a typical meet with a Johnson.  You show up early, in a nice suit, already knowing what the place's security is like and how to pronounce the overpriced French-word entree that you will order (legwork and a hacker's assistance are both great boons to a face).  Sample dialogue:  "That's a pretty low offer.  Now, I understand.  They have you out here doing this dangerous scut work, counting every Nuyen they give you, and you can't even afford to spend all of that - you have to show them some get-go by hiring the talent under your max allowable.  I mean, you don't want to be stuck doing this forever.  But we both know the truth of this business - you can get it done quick, get it done quiet, or get it done cheap - but you have to pick two.  Let me see if I can cut you a break, though.  You bring that offer up a bit, be a bit less stingy on the logistical support, and I might be able to sell this run to the team - it'll be a hard sell, but I'm willing to put up with a bit of yelling from them if we can both walk away from this table with a deal."


That's how a face can be, from the player's perspective.  From the GM's point of view, now, I would recommend this - just like combat resembles an action movie more than reality, make social skills cinematic, too!  There was a scene in Beverly Hills Cop where Eddie Murphy's character shows up at a ritzy hotel and has to bluff his way in - it's a great scene, but it wouldn't work in real life where most hotel managers aren't gullible chimps.  It's fine for Shadowrun, though.  Have people be more prone to ignore holes in arguments, less likely to have a snappy comeback, and more easily led in general.  Not to the point where they all become faceless strawmen, but give the face some slack to do his thing.

[JmOz01]

Thank you for the EXCELENT reply Glyph, that is exactly what I am looking for with this thread.  MANY MANY THANKS

[FancyDerek]

in term of usefullness- improved ttibue [CHA] nets you a +1 dp everytime vs first impression +2 the first time you meet someone... you often deal with the same people multiple times.

[Kuirem]

in term of usefullness- improved ttibue [CHA] nets you a +1 dp everytime vs first impression +2 the first time you meet someone... you often deal with the same people multiple times.

The person you talk multiple times with often become contact so they will have some Loyalty and will likely be Neutral (+0) if not Friendly (+2). Also they know you so if you have Street Cred it will be applied.

The person you meet for the first time though? That's when it can be tricky. Trying to talk your way through a guard will likely award you with a Suspicious attitude (-1) minimum and your Street Cred will likely be unavailable. That's when you need as much dice as possible.

Improved Attribute is also much more expensive, especially considering that you have to invest extra Karma/Attribute Points in it.

[JmOz01]

The character is "Locked" as of right now.  No changes except spending Karma (He could reduce his Summoning one die and get rid of Arcanna, plus loose the jacket, glasses, and heavy crossbow, as that is how he spent his last reward).  I am mainly looking at ways for him to be the best that he can