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looking to start running shadowrun games looking for advice.

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trollsong

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« on: <11-13-16/0849:43> »
Mostly purchasing questions, how many core rule books do you find you need for the table or is one good enough? I'll probably be running their stories first I was trying to decide between the digital toolkiit and the splintered state, any recommendations?
Any other books that you recommend to start out with?
Have you found running using just pdfs is a pain?
Any any advice for running for a small group(probably around 3-4 player characters)

Tecumseh

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« Reply #1 on: <11-14-16/1554:17> »
I don't have the digital toolkit so I can't comment on that.

How many core rulebooks you need depends on how much reading and research you want your players doing between sessions. I might recommend that everyone have a PDF of the core rulebook available, but that only one physical copy of the book is necessary. (Maybe even zero, if you're comfortable with PDFs.)

One of the great things about PDFs is that they are searchable. Ctrl-F will save you so much time. I'll be honest, a PDF is not my favorite way to read a rulebook, but it is by far my favorite way to look up rules.

3-4 players is actually pretty perfect, especially if you're just getting started. Let the players choose their character types so that they can pick something fun and engaging. If they're not feeling picky, here's a reasonable breakdown of characters/responsibilities

1. Street Samurai / physical adept ("Meat")
2. Mage / Shaman ("Magic")
3. Decker / Technomancer ("Matrix")
4. Face (no clever m- alliteration here, "mingle"?)

Many first-time players and GMs find that Matrix is the most challenging to integrate into a game, so I might save that for last if it's an option. But if you have a player that's eager to try it then I'd say it's worth the effort to support them in what they want to play.

If the group hasn't tried out the system yet, the Quick-Start rules can be a good place to get acquainted with the world and the basic gameplay mechanics: http://cdn.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/E-CAT27QSR_SR5-Quick-Start-Rules.pdf

Another approach is to start with a rules-lite approach - the recently released Shadowrun: Anarchy - before making the leap to the more mechanically-oriented 5th Edition. This depends on how much detail your players enjoy versus how much time they want to spend just telling a story together.

But the most important piece of advice is to have fun. Shadowrun has a steep learning curve so don't expect everything to go perfectly from the beginning. Wing it as you learn, and keep things moving. Nothing kills the fun like digging into the rulebooks for 15 minutes to research the exact answer. Make a reasonable guess and move on and you'll do well.

brasso

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« Reply #2 on: <11-14-16/1611:26> »
Seconded!

Bloody Business might not be a bad choice of adventures, although they are outlines only, else maybe the Chicago missions? Splintered State is possibly too open for starting players.

Other than that, all you really need is the core rulebook
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Sphinx

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« Reply #3 on: <11-15-16/1342:23> »
The "Alphaware" box set has some useful bits and bobs, including a "Plots and Paydata" booklet with a series of short adventures designed for beginning players and GMs. It also has an abridged "Rules of the Street" booklet that condenses the core rules into a useful table reference, almost as good as having a second rulebook at the table. Highly recommended.

I agree with most of what Tecumseh said. PDFs are easy to work with if you've got a good laptop and a convenient power outlet (or a good battery). Searchable PDFs are incredibly handy, but don't overlook the other advantages of a laptop at the gaming table: Mood music, maps, visual references (Google image search is your friend).

I think the ideal group size is a GM plus four or five players. Encourage the players to cover the three essentials (Muscle, Magic, and Matrix). Riggers are an optional fourth category ("Machine"), useful but not quite essential, while Faces, Investigators, and other utility types fall under "Miscellaneous." Five Ms!

Don't be intimidated by the rules. Pretty much everything comes down to rolling a number of dice equal to an Attribute plus a Skill, with modifiers. The one with the most hits (5s and 6s) wins. Easy.

A warning about Quick-Start Rules: It can be a good way to try the game without buying the big black book, but it's not perfectly compatible with Shadowrun Fifth Edition. It changes some key game concepts in the interest of simplicity (e.g., no drain for spellcasting), which could be confusing later. Once you've decided to buy SR5, you've already outgrown the Quick Start Rules.

Stoneglobe

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« Reply #4 on: <11-15-16/1445:29> »
Best advice I can give is don't worry too much about all of the rules. You'll never remember them all and Sphinx covered that very nicely with:

Quote

Don't be intimidated by the rules. Pretty much everything comes down to rolling a number of dice equal to an Attribute plus a Skill, with modifiers. The one with the most hits (5s and 6s) wins. Easy.


Have fun and don't take on too many of the books at once. The core rule book has everything you need to play and the rest just add further choice, sometimes depth and sometimes just fluff and even more questions :)

The PDFs are generally pretty good , though the lack of indexes or decent contents pages in some of the books is very annoying. Data Trails probably shouldn't be very high on your list unless you're planning a very matrix heavy campaign but Run Faster with it's expanded creation rules and additional qualities is a good purchase.

As to published adventures/campaigns I can't comment as I don't use them. I've always preferred to write my own.
´Wonderful´, the Flatline said,´I never did like to do anything simple when I could do it ass-backwards.´ - William Gibson, Neuromancer
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trollsong

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« Reply #5 on: <11-15-16/1446:11> »
How would you introduce the world to players my group doesnt know much about it and my knowledge comes more from nigel findley, wikis and a recent book anthology that i forgot the name of just remeber i
The main characters were a female wizard and an elf physadept.


Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <11-15-16/1532:26> »
If you are just starting off, all you really need is the CRB, as it contains pretty much everything you need to get your feet wet into the world of Shadowrun.

Once you have gotten wet, and your players have expressed an interest into an archtype (Cyber Sammy, Mages/adepts, Rigging, decking/technomancing) then you can look into the expanded rule books that cover those areas....

After all, why buy the Decking book if no one wants to play a decker?


Other then that, the others above has some good suggestions.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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Sphinx

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« Reply #7 on: <11-15-16/1817:39> »
How would you introduce the world to players my group doesnt know much about it and my knowledge comes more from nigel findley, wikis and a recent book anthology that i forgot the name of.

Send a "Daily Shadowrun" e-mail to your group. Every day, choose one thing about the game and write a brief paragraph about it. Start with the basics. You can cover a lot of ground in just a few weeks.

For example: (1) The Awakening, (2) elves and dwarfs, (3) Indians, (4) the Great Ghost Dance, (5) the Native American Nations, (6) Goblinization Day, (7) orks and trolls, (8) the Crash, (9) the Matrix, (10) megacorporations, (11) extraterritoriality, (12) Mr. Johnson, (13) fixers, (14) shadowrunners, (15) cyberware, (16) magic, (17) Astral Space, (18) spirits, (19) paracritters, (20) dragons ... eventually you can spend  a week profiling the great dragons, a week on organized crime syndicates, a couple weeks on the Big Ten ... you get the idea.

I've done this a couple of times when breaking in new players and new campaigns. Some players will dive in and read the sourcebook cover to cover over a weekend, but most appreciate the chance to absorb bits and pieces steadily over time. The important thing is to keep the lessons frequent but short, and to encourage questions and discussion.

brasso

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« Reply #8 on: <11-16-16/0227:09> »
These are all good suggestions. Also podcasts are another - neo-anarchist podcast does a great job of running through the setting of Shadowrun, and they're really short episodes
The system we learn says we're equal under law
But the streets are reality, the weak and poor will fall

Mr. Black

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« Reply #9 on: <11-19-16/0125:12> »
I would gloss over much of the world to new players. While Shadowrun has a rich and amazing living background, it can be overwhelming, intimidating and often straitjacket new players. I would give them the basics-worldwide apocalypse, rise of the corps, and return of magic. Make them aware of the politics and prejudices of the area you are running, and then let them go.

More important is that Shadowrun in NOT D&D. There are no mazes full of monsters sitting on treasure chests, waiting for players to kill and rob them. The players are criminals, not the heroes of fantasy tropes. At best they are anti-heroes, at worst they are the monsters. They will be chased by law enforcement agencies, other criminal organizations, the corps they rob, and everyone they wrong. They may help the downtrodden from time to time, but earn their pay through murder, kidnapping, robbery, extortion and blackmail.

Next important thing for new players is survival. Shadowrun is a game where most people have 10 hit points, and a big pistol does 9 points of damage. It is easy to kill people, and easy to die, and there are no Resurrection spells. Players need to know to how to stay alive, and that running away is better than dying. Mission failure is better than a TPK.

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #10 on: <11-19-16/1622:12> »
I'm going to echo a few others in saying that the Main Book is the big thing you'll need. Also look up some cheat sheets for the game. The forum here and places abroad have a lot of good ones that can make it quick and easy to find what you need. And if you can't find a rule quickly, don't be afraid to make up something to keep the game going, and look it up in the book later on. I would also recommend the Run Faster companion book, as it has a lot of stuff that can help flesh out characters and character creation from both a rules and role-play perspective. The other books are nice, but add them in later once you have a few games under your belt and are more confident about things. They do have a number of good areas though about the world at large, the history of things, and current events too that you can slowly roll into your game.

For general world and history stuff, get yourself a cope of The 6th World Almanac. Seriously, one of the best fluff books in the game hands down. It goes over a full timeline of Shadowrun and has a nice breakdown on countries and information about them. The info is slightly out of date, since it was written in 2070 and the current time is 2075, but it'll really help lay the foundation of the world for you. The 'Shadow's of.." serious also is good for this.

The Neo-Anarchist Podcast is also a good listen. The host plays as an in-world character broadcasting a pirate show to tell anyone who's listening the Truth about the world and it's history. Informative and fun to listen too!

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #11 on: <11-19-16/1637:24> »
More important is that Shadowrun in NOT D&D. There are no mazes full of monsters sitting on treasure chests, waiting for players to kill and rob them.

Phht, I happen to know for a fact that Lofwyr has exactly just such a place to test out new assets at! Be careful taking that job though. Seriously top level pay but you WILL have people die. Make sure it's Griff.

The players are criminals, not the heroes of fantasy tropes. At best they are anti-heroes, at worst they are the monsters. They will be chased by law enforcement agencies, other criminal organizations, the corps they rob, and everyone they wrong. They may help the downtrodden from time to time, but earn their pay through murder, kidnapping, robbery, extortion and blackmail.

Except, it doesn't have to be. You can very much play a white knight or Robin Hood style runner as a fun and successful character. You also don't have to play a campaign where you're even Shadowrunners. I've played one campaign where we were members of a Seraphim Rapid Response medivac unit. In another we were members of a completely legal and on the table mercenary company, where many hilarious shenanigans ensued. And one time, we played the cops! All fun and highly memorable campaigns that didn't go for the 'your a killer and that's all you'll ever be' trope that sometimes people seem to think is all there is to Shadowrun. It's a full world with a lot of different ways to play the game.

Mirikon

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« Reply #12 on: <11-20-16/0940:50> »
Moonshine, those are fringe cases. Kindof like saying you can do D&D as a party of puppy-killing, party-backstabbing, crazy evil adventurers. Yes, it is possible (and fun!), but when speaking generally, especially for people new to the game, it is best to go with what is true for 80-90% of the games out there.

Mr. Black makes very good points. Another thing you should warn new players about are wound penalties. Because once you start taking hits, everything becomes harder, and you're more likely to keep taking hits. Remember, folks, it is easier to dodge questions than bullets. Unless you're an adept.
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Glyph

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« Reply #13 on: <11-20-16/2324:40> »
I wouldn't call playing a white knight or a Robin Hood a fringe case.  From Pancho Villa, to Bonnie and Clyde, to about half of the action movies out there, the romanticized criminal is a staple of popular culture, including Shadowrun.

You can be a Pacifist, or have a Code of Honor.  However, note that those are negative qualities.  But also note that things such as Sadism, Vindictive, or Combat Monster are flaws, too.

Shadowrunners are people who do dangerous, shady jobs under the table for a living, despite having skills that are in demand for much less dangerous or illicit work.  Some shadowrunners are idealists; some are professionals who like being able to work on their own terms and set their own hours; some are thrust into this dangerous work by desperate circumstances; and some run because they aren't mentally stable - the crazies, the thrill-seekers, and worse.