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Hobbes

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« Reply #45 on: <05-01-19/1518:36> »

Soak roll Body only: Concerned

Overall, I am in favor of smaller dice pools. Even with reduced damage though, soaking with only a single attribute + ware/qualities seems as though it will make combat significantly more lethal. If there are more miscellaneous options in said ware/qualities than I am anticipating, then perhaps this might turn out ok. That said, armor rating only mattering for if the attacker gains a bonus edge or not really seems to negate the value of armor. If hit, most everything will simple be one or two shot.

The Predator was stated as having a base damage of 3 wasn't it?  Unless there is a significant difference between the Attack dice pool and the Defense dice pool, you'll be soaking 4 or 5 damage?  So, Body 3 Mook/Mage/Squishy, is going to take 3 shots to drop if they can soak a point or two each time.  (Presuming the typical character has 10 Boxes...)

A Samurai with 5 body and Augments and a high defense pool is still going to be really tough to drop unless there is some significant dice pool boosts to Attack rolls.   I would think instead of dice pool boosts Augments, Powers, Spells, and Gear would be giving Edge?  *shrug*

Smaller dice pools does make the math easier, if more swingy. 

Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #46 on: <05-01-19/1537:15> »
Player: "Hey, our research said this one guy doesn't get along well with technology, right?"
GM: "Yes?"
Player: "And he's wielding a modern gun?"
GM: "Yes...."
Player: "Okay, he must have Gremlins. I'm making him glitch on 2s as well."
GM: "... Frag."
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the new meta.

The Predator was stated as having a base damage of 3 wasn't it?  Unless there is a significant difference between the Attack dice pool and the Defense dice pool, you'll be soaking 4 or 5 damage?
Even if that is going to be the case in the average combat, it's still making surprise attacks a hell of a lot deadlier.
After all you don't send an electrician to fix your leaking toilet.

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Lormyr

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« Reply #47 on: <05-01-19/1546:07> »
The Predator was stated as having a base damage of 3 wasn't it?  Unless there is a significant difference between the Attack dice pool and the Defense dice pool, you'll be soaking 4 or 5 damage?  So, Body 3 Mook/Mage/Squishy, is going to take 3 shots to drop if they can soak a point or two each time.  (Presuming the typical character has 10 Boxes...)

A Samurai with 5 body and Augments and a high defense pool is still going to be really tough to drop unless there is some significant dice pool boosts to Attack rolls.   I would think instead of dice pool boosts Augments, Powers, Spells, and Gear would be giving Edge?  *shrug*

Smaller dice pools does make the math easier, if more swingy.

Sure, that is not so bad for that particular example. Lets look at other common ones:

Assault rifle (yamaha raiden), base damage 5P. Burst fire takes it to 6P, full auto to 8P.

A 10 strength troll (or an augmented human) with an axe is 13P.

Without comprehensive knowledge of what damage mitigation will be available in the end, the damage I know of vs. soak potential I know of is a rough equation.
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kyoto kid

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« Reply #48 on: <05-01-19/1551:01> »
...just watched the video and leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not thrilled with having to "start over" again with only the core book and waiting years for supplements and expansions to be re-released to really flesh out a decent character again.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #49 on: <05-01-19/1553:24> »
...just watched the video and leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not thrilled with having to "start over" again with only the core book and waiting years for supplements and expansions to be re-released to really flesh out a decent character again.
Eh, that's in all editions. SR5 released extended core books faster than SR4, let's hope they do the same for SR6.
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Fedifensor

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« Reply #50 on: <05-01-19/1614:32> »
...just watched the video and leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not thrilled with having to "start over" again with only the core book and waiting years for supplements and expansions to be re-released to really flesh out a decent character again.
Eh, that's in all editions. SR5 released extended core books faster than SR4, let's hope they do the same for SR6.
That's a two-edged sword.  Fortunately, I have a two-income household and a decent amount of discretionary income for gaming, but it seems a bit early to buy new books.  Sure, some material will be new, but a lot will be recycled - there's only so many ways to describe an Ares Predator, a GMC Bulldog, or how the corps run things.  To have the equivalent amount of content (and presumably character options) that I have now, I'm going to need several supplements.  Even just the books with the most options* will cost hundreds of dollars and would be a pretty ambitious publishing schedule for the first year.  Maybe they could reduce the sting by finally embracing Bits and Mortar (get the PDF free with the digital book)...


Even 4th edition D&D, which got a ton of hate, also lasted 6 years before a new edition.  5th edition Shadowrun isn't perfect, but seems to be liked a lot better than 4E D&D was.  I feel like Catalyst is pulling the trigger too soon - and if they knew they were going to do this two years ago (given the typical development cycle, that's likely), they should have extended the Chicago Shadowrun Missions and arranged to launch Neo-Tokyo with 6th edition.




* This is subjective, but I think the most used book content I have comes from the following - core book, Run & Gun, Street Grimoire, Chrome Flesh, Data Trails, Hard Targets, Rigger 5, Kill Code, Street Lethal

kyoto kid

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« Reply #51 on: <05-01-19/1616:17> »
So, um...will the Neo-Tokyo Shadowrun Missions stay 5E until the campaign finishes, or will the campaign convert to 6E (a process likely to be painful and confusing for everyone involved)?


If we don't convert, Missions isn't promoting the new products (one of the big reasons for its existence).  If we do convert, how many players does Missions lose in the process?  This is why I wasn't expecting a new version until 2021...
...I will likely be one of who departs if that happens.  Finally have some really decent characters for the NT Missions.  Hate to have to effectively scrap them as they are built using a number of the later supplements and rules expansions, many of which will likely not be available yet.

Having just paid for all the relevant modules for HeroLab, I suspect I'll be rather annoyed if everything I bought is useless by the end of the year.
...I hear you there . For myself, it would mean development of an entirely new version of Chummer for those of us who cannot afford to dump upwards of 100$ into a character generation system after having to buy all the books (or PDFs) again.   I prefer to use an automated character generator as I have serious arthritis which has made my handwriting almost illegible.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #52 on: <05-01-19/1630:56> »
Season 10 is 5E, approach after is still under discussion.
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kyoto kid

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« Reply #53 on: <05-01-19/1644:52> »
My impression of some of the changes that have been made public this far (including listening to the active play of the 6th ed quick start rules):

Soak roll Body only: Concerned

Overall, I am in favor of smaller dice pools. Even with reduced damage though, soaking with only a single attribute + ware/qualities seems as though it will make combat significantly more lethal. If there are more miscellaneous options in said ware/qualities than I am anticipating, then perhaps this might turn out ok. That said, armor rating only mattering for if the attacker gains a bonus edge or not really seems to negate the value of armor. If hit, most everything will simple be one or two shot.

...aww but I love it when Leela (in her Medium Milspec with Titanium Bone Lacing and Orthoskin 4) can drop an HE grenade at her feet and soak it, at worst maybe taking a box of stun or two.

Seriously, I agree here and with other similar comments that it kind of makes armour useless.

Spellcasting and drain roll the same roll: Dislike

The main thing I don't like about this is that a single bad roll will result in devastation. As it currently stands in 5th, you can potentially cast your spell very well but suffer big drain damage, or maybe your spell doesn't cast so well but also doesn't hurt you. With this new system, you can end up with a situation where not only did your spell not do anything, but you also roasted yourself because of a single bad roll. At least in 5th it takes two bad rolls for that to occur.
...agreed, and will Reagents or Fetishes still mitigate drain?  Also will this apply to summoning as well?

Spell duration instead of sustain: Like

It will depend on the specific calculation for those durations, but overall, I like this idea much better.
...not wild about this.  I don't mind sustaining as there are ways to lower the penalty (such as Focused Concentration and using Psyche). So this would also mean spells like Increased Initiative or increased Attribute will go "poof" after a set length of time (unless quickened or on a sustaining focus).  Sounds like D&D instead of Shadowrun.

New edge system: Mixed

I think the idea is cool.

The implementation seems to slow combat down, though. On every single action, on every single character, you will have to compare attack value vs. defense rating to see if extra edge are applied. Then you have to look at the situation and see if either side has advantage. Then you have to decide if you want to spend any of that edge for maneuvers. Every single action.
...I agree when it comes to combat, particularly being able to use it to force a glitch (isn't that what the Gremlins quality is for?). 

Personally speaking, I wasn't thrilled about Edge when it was introduced in 4E as it made Shadowrun feel more like a video game than a P&P RPG. I thought the way Karma Pool worked in 3E was just fine (and you only got one "Hand of God").

Decker actions changes: Love

No more marks, no more multiple turns that will result in the combat being over before you are done. Just pick your action, make your roll, and implement the result? Yes please.
...this is about the only improvement, as yes sometimes the combat is over before you can even brick a single gun/drone or disable an installation's sentry weapons.

No more skill groups / skills folded together: Like

So many of those skills were already so close to the same thing that I am very pleased to see the list just folded in and narrowed.
...for myself, the jury is still out on this one unless skill points are increased.  Flying a plane or handling a boat is not like driving a car. Same for tinkering with micro electronics compared to cutting the power grid to a facility. 
« Last Edit: <05-01-19/1700:34> by kyoto kid »
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kyoto kid

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« Reply #54 on: <05-01-19/1653:15> »
...just watched the video and leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not thrilled with having to "start over" again with only the core book and waiting years for supplements and expansions to be re-released to really flesh out a decent character again.
Eh, that's in all editions. SR5 released extended core books faster than SR4, let's hope they do the same for SR6.
That's a two-edged sword.  Fortunately, I have a two-income household and a decent amount of discretionary income for gaming, but it seems a bit early to buy new books.  Sure, some material will be new, but a lot will be recycled - there's only so many ways to describe an Ares Predator, a GMC Bulldog, or how the corps run things.  To have the equivalent amount of content (and presumably character options) that I have now, I'm going to need several supplements.  Even just the books with the most options* will cost hundreds of dollars and would be a pretty ambitious publishing schedule for the first year.  Maybe they could reduce the sting by finally embracing Bits and Mortar (get the PDF free with the digital book)...


Even 4th edition D&D, which got a ton of hate, also lasted 6 years before a new edition.  5th edition Shadowrun isn't perfect, but seems to be liked a lot better than 4E D&D was.  I feel like Catalyst is pulling the trigger too soon - and if they knew they were going to do this two years ago (given the typical development cycle, that's likely), they should have extended the Chicago Shadowrun Missions and arranged to launch Neo-Tokyo with 6th edition.




* This is subjective, but I think the most used book content I have comes from the following - core book, Run & Gun, Street Grimoire, Chrome Flesh, Data Trails, Hard Targets, Rigger 5, Kill Code, Street Lethal
...+1
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kyoto kid

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« Reply #55 on: <05-01-19/1659:01> »
Season 10 is 5E, approach after is still under discussion.
...so that would mean having to convert or create all new characters would before the final two NT seasons. 

I agree with Fediensor, they should have just extended Chicago two more seasons and then introduced NT under the new rules instead of having it occur midstream.
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Fedifensor

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« Reply #56 on: <05-01-19/1707:49> »
I agree with Fediensor, they should have just extended Chicago two more seasons and then introduced NT under the new rules instead of having it occur midstream.
There is another option, though I think it would give the campaign staff a heart attack.  Keep Neo-Tokyo missions in 5th edition for the full 4 years that were promised.  Launch a separate campaign in 2020 in a different location, and run it in 6E.


Hobbes

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« Reply #57 on: <05-01-19/1744:37> »
I agree with Fediensor, they should have just extended Chicago two more seasons and then introduced NT under the new rules instead of having it occur midstream.
There is another option, though I think it would give the campaign staff a heart attack.  Keep Neo-Tokyo missions in 5th edition for the full 4 years that were promised.  Launch a separate campaign in 2020 in a different location, and run it in 6E.

Season 10 Missions are probably mostly written.  Those should drop at Origins/Gen Con as 5th edition as in the past few years.  I would imagine Catalyst would want the Missions team to move to 6th Edition for Season 11. 

New City/New Characters is totally up in the air I'd think at this point.  I mean, a conversion guide could be written for 5th Edition characters that have played Season 9, 10, and whatever CMPs.  I seem to recall one for the 4th to 5th conversion. 

kyoto kid

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« Reply #58 on: <05-01-19/1757:18> »
...any conversion guide would have to cover all the supplements that have been released.  That would be one huge file.  For example I have Face character who is built with the following expansions beyond the Core rulebook:

Run Faster
Run & Gun
Cutting Aces
Street Lethal
Kill Code
Better Than Bad

Even if these supplements were covered, it would also require a major rework of the character such as Skills (which have been reduced in number), Qualities (some which may not have the same effect or none at all), Gear, and Augmentations (because of the changes and new mechanics) which would effectively mean building a new character.
« Last Edit: <05-01-19/1803:01> by kyoto kid »
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Hobbes

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« Reply #59 on: <05-01-19/1804:11> »
Conversion as in "If you've played mission X, you get Y and Z stuffs". 

The characters would be re-built using 6th edition.  The Missions team isn't going to go through every source book and write out the 6th edition crunch for everything not in the 6th edition CRB.

But who knows, the Missions team may just keep on chugging with 5th Edition.  Or write Missions with Dual stats and let local GMs sort it out.  *shrug*  Lots of options if you think about it.