[Marcus]

You certainly maybe right, that has been the errata teams role to date, and there isn’t really any reason to assume that’s changed I simply hope that won’t be the case.

[jim1701]

These are the QSR which we're seeing examples of.  They are pretty much guaranteed to be a simplified subset of the full rules.  Not sure how much stock I can put in critiques on complexity until the full rules become available.  Then again IMO 5th ED was a horribly a over complicated mess simply for the sake of being complex.

Not sure if this was directed at me, If so I am speaking from what I have seen and heard from the play thru on shadowcasters network.
And they are using the full corebook to the best of my knowledge not the beginners box QSR.

My statement was directed at no one in particular.  Just my impression of many statements I've seen over the last few weeks.   

[Shinobi Killfist]

You certainly maybe right, that has been the errata teams role to date, and there isn’t really any reason to assume that’s changed I simply hope that won’t be the case.

The edge system is really going to be make or break for a lot of people. It’s very gamist and you kind of have to turn your brain off. Yeah it can be used tactically and with intelligence but if you try to connect it with the game world it just won’t work.

So someone shoots at me with a super difficult shot at no penalty but I got 2 edge and now that I have 4 edge total I can return fire at multiple people in an even more difficult shot with no penalty but I gave them 2 edge. Yeah that makes sense in the world. Mechanically the math might work but it’s very dont look at the man behind the curtain mode, just roll with it and don’t think about it. For some that will be great, for others it will be a wall they can’t get past.

Unless they lose more fans than they gain, im not sure they will see it as a broken mechanic that needs fixing with errata.

[Marcus]

Part of the issue is, where limit squashed the bell curve in 5e, 6e appears to have all the same pool issues as 5e had but lacks tools to Help address them. 2 edge as a limit is kinda odd but if your using it in every roll well there in lies problems, unless per-turn means something more like per roll then you’re in something of a weird situation.

[tenchi2a]

You certainly maybe right, that has been the errata teams role to date, and there isn’t really any reason to assume that’s changed I simply hope that won’t be the case.

IMHO
To put it into gaming terms.
CGLs is pulling a Fallout 76, and want you to buy an incomplete game with known issues while they slowly build it into a playable game.
Or to use computer terms, they are like Microsoft putting out a Alpha version of their software, letting the users find and fix the bugs (Errata team) then putting out a finished version that they did not have to work on.

[Shinobi Killfist]

You certainly maybe right, that has been the errata teams role to date, and there isn’t really any reason to assume that’s changed I simply hope that won’t be the case.

IMHO
To put it into gaming terms.
CGLs is pulling a Fallout 76, and want you to buy an incomplete game with known issues while they slowly build it into a playable game.
Or to use computer terms, they are like Microsoft putting out a Alpha version of their software, letting the users find and fix the bugs (Errata team) then putting out a finished version that they did not have to work on.

I kind of hope so actually. Because then at least they recognize the issue.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Have we seen how area of effect work in 6e yet?  I felt 5es way of no defense test just soak and you could interrupt and move out of the way vs all but grenade launcher attacks. The interrupt made no sense to me. Why can’t I interrupt and move away from a thrown dagger or arrow. Not extra dice I just move 1 meter left and now it misses. Also with air bursts exactly how far are you moving in the 1ish second it’s flying at you.

On top of that the rule reinforced the idea that your defense test was you actually dodging bullets and not just moving defensively, there are ways to minimize the damage of explosions which a defense test would reflect.

 Additionally grenades had absurd damage turning something that deadly into just a soak test was just bad design especially since the run away maneuver came later in a supplement.

[incrdbil]

I'm mystified how they went so wrong with so many aspects of this. I think this is going to be the edition i skip. Lets hope 7th comes along quickly.

[Marcus]

Looks like the powers that be are getting leaned on concerning 6e.

I suspect what we are seeing on 6e is the result of a couple trends in the industry. The first is the 5e D&D thing, like it or dislike it D&D is still the 500lb gorilla of ttrpgs. 5e D&D has become hugely popular, if you keep an eye on trend across game support sites, you will notice the huge majority have become over run with many home brew 5e variants. If you watch things like drivethrurpg you will see some their all time best sellers have become Dmguild products. 5e’s most visible change is simplification. Simplified everything. Certainly 6e simplification trend is probably related to that. Another trend we are seeing is momentum, i first recall it from ether exalted or Scion recent editions. But I believe is several other IPs. Momentum makes thing more interesting as you build up as a result of failure, yours or your parties. I think the new edge incarnation may relate to that. Now I easily be wrong on that score, momentum and edge are generated in very different ways and do very different things. I thought edge might be like proficiency bonus at first but as it doesn’t scale and it’s not really additive I think I was wrong there. 

That’s my theory on how we got here. I have no reasonable explanation on the QSR thing.

[FastJack]

No one is leaning on me or other moderators, I'm pointing out the ToS on the boards because I don't want this to turn into Dumpshock.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The only thing simple in 5e D&d is the proficiency bonus being universal. Spells, powers, multi classing etc keep it fairly complex. D&D is the big dog because it’s D&D.

But yes there is a trend toward simplification. And yes edge looks like a mechanic to represent being on a roll or having momentum. None of which explains armor not soaking, strength not adding to the DV of melee weapons. It does explains how they handled situational modifiers in combat even if it was a bad choice.

[Marcus]

All that last is simplification. I think it’s not
Particularly well done simplification, but it eliminates variables, and that to someone’s mind is simplification.

Sure spell casting in 5e is strong but if you compare the casting action in 5th vs the casting action in pathfinder, and it’s way simpler. 

[Shinobi Killfist]

All that last is simplification. I think it’s not
Particularly well done simplification, but it eliminates variables, and that to someone’s mind is simplification.

Sure spell casting in 5e is strong but if you compare the casting action in 5th vs the casting action in pathfinder, and it’s way simpler.

I seriously can’t understand a thought process in design where the variable armor+body for soak needs simplification while also adding armor+body= defense rating. In fact for soak pool being the same as your defense rating would be simpler. Or thinking strength effecting unarmed damage but not melee damage simplifies things. That may have been a motivator but I suspect there were other reasons.  Bad reasons but other than simplification reasons. 

I get it to some degree with situational modifiers in that people like to roll the same pool size each time I think. But there are better ways to deal with that than this edge mechanic imo.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

All that last is simplification. I think it’s not
Particularly well done simplification, but it eliminates variables, and that to someone’s mind is simplification.

Sure spell casting in 5e is strong but if you compare the casting action in 5th vs the casting action in pathfinder, and it’s way simpler.

I seriously can’t understand a thought process in design where the variable armor+body for soak needs simplification while also adding armor+body= defense rating. In fact for soak pool being the same as your defense rating would be simpler. Or thinking strength effecting unarmed damage but not melee damage simplifies things. That may have been a motivator but I suspect there were other reasons.  Bad reasons but other than simplification reasons. 

I get it to some degree with situational modifiers in that people like to roll the same pool size each time I think. But there are better ways to deal with that than this edge mechanic imo.

I don't think removing armor from soak was done in the name of simplification.

It's pretty clear (not that I know for sure, I wasn't part of playtest) that the size of the soak pools being made smaller was necessary because there was a strategic design goal made that weapons will have smaller DV values.  You can't be rolling 5e size soak pools against the DVs in 6e.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I generally approve of the smaller soak pool as a motivator. Since it was absurd in 5e and not just the extremes. A fairly basic character, armor jacket+mask+4 body rolled 18 dice. And so I think that’s part of the reason. But with armor being listed like at 3 for a vest I think they had the covered already.

The lower damage base I mostly agree with as well since absurd damage guns had a lot of negative setting effects with the environment, attacks on animals, vehicles etc. but they need a better system in getting the damage up on a good hit. 3 base damage is great, kind of what I’d expect from a grazing hit from a pistol. But needing 7+ hits for a kill shot is extreme. If I need 3 dice per dv I’m really motivated to bump that base dv as much as possible. I’d like pistols to be a thing again but I don’t think it will happen this edition. Too much work for a kill shot.