[Michael Chandra]

On the bright side, errata team has already been looking at SR6 Core. And I think I heard grids are gone?

[FastJack]

No one is leaning on me or other moderators, I'm pointing out the ToS on the boards because I don't want this to turn into Dumpshock.

...but does anyone go there anymore?  I signed in a few days ago just to see what take on 6e was there, only to find quite a few threads with the newest response being months up to even a year old.

Hence why I don't want this place to end up like that. So much vitriol and trolling caused them to self-implode. The only people that come around to read trolls' comments are other trolls.

[FastJack]

I suspect they are already at the printer or printed. Best case they come out with run n gun fast with a ton of fix it rules.

 When the fix is "dump many of the core rules and most of the gear stats" that's just not going to happen. 

The reviews I've read so far sound like they are pretty decent and are sure to attract new players (which is the goal of every game). The only real complaints I'm hearing are printing errors (which is, unfortunately, pretty common), and folks that just don't want anything to change. By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years. Granted, sneaking into Aztechnology is a lot harder when piloting a 35m tall 'Mech.

[Moonshine Fox]

I’m all for crashing through Aztec’s front doors in a 45 ton Hatchetman mech! Gotta do a proper homage to a long lost runner.

[Singularity]

I suspect they are already at the printer or printed. Best case they come out with run n gun fast with a ton of fix it rules.

 When the fix is "dump many of the core rules and most of the gear stats" that's just not going to happen. 

The reviews I've read so far sound like they are pretty decent and are sure to attract new players (which is the goal of every game). The only real complaints I'm hearing are printing errors (which is, unfortunately, pretty common), and folks that just don't want anything to change. By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years. Granted, sneaking into Aztechnology is a lot harder when piloting a 35m tall 'Mech.

If you are piloting a 35m Mech, with all of its associated weaponry, do you *really* need to sneak? 

[Moonshine Fox]

I suspect they are already at the printer or printed. Best case they come out with run n gun fast with a ton of fix it rules.

 When the fix is "dump many of the core rules and most of the gear stats" that's just not going to happen. 

The reviews I've read so far sound like they are pretty decent and are sure to attract new players (which is the goal of every game). The only real complaints I'm hearing are printing errors (which is, unfortunately, pretty common), and folks that just don't want anything to change. By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years. Granted, sneaking into Aztechnology is a lot harder when piloting a 35m tall 'Mech.

If you are piloting a 35m Mech, with all of its associated weaponry, do you *really* need to sneak? 

http://www.geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/didheseeme.html

Pic to big to post

[Michael Chandra]

At that point you sneak so they don't Thor you.

[PiXeL01]

Mad Cat beats any and all Inner Sphere mechs ...but if runners are armed with mechs, who do you think is supplying them?

[Shinobi Killfist]

I suspect they are already at the printer or printed. Best case they come out with run n gun fast with a ton of fix it rules.

 When the fix is "dump many of the core rules and most of the gear stats" that's just not going to happen.

There are ways to patch it without going that extreme. Armor that soaks could basically be a dikote upgrade. A optional rule that melee uses strength for its dice pool instead of agility. Accelerate damage to 2dv per hit. Add threshold modifiers to combat for situational modifiers so firing blind is actually harder than not firing blind.

[tenchi2a]

I suspect they are already at the printer or printed. Best case they come out with run n gun fast with a ton of fix it rules.

 When the fix is "dump many of the core rules and most of the gear stats" that's just not going to happen. 

The reviews I've read so far sound like they are pretty decent and are sure to attract new players (which is the goal of every game). The only real complaints I'm hearing are printing errors (which is, unfortunately, pretty common), and folks that just don't want anything to change. By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years. Granted, sneaking into Aztechnology is a lot harder when piloting a 35m tall 'Mech.

I happened to play Battletech, and have been playing since 1991. Have also played Shadowrun since 1st.
And while the rules for Battletech the boardgame have stayed pretty much the same for most of it's existence, they have gone out of their way to cripple every other unit type (Aerospace fighters, armor, infantry,etc) to keep battlemech the kings of the battlefield.
Which shows a willingness to forgo game mechanics just to push their narrative, logic and good mechanics be damned.
example: In the scenario "Birth of the King" that shows the first Battlemech going up against a large group of tanks, they intentionally down graded the tanks to allow the Mech to win.
 
And then there is the RPG which shows a move from interesting well established flavorful PCs to generic flavorless PCs templates in the name of simplification.
And they even managed to make character creation a chore even when making these flavorless PCs.
Which shows a trend by CGL to suck-out the core of a game to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the RPG gaming world.
And to this day CGL have yet to fix any of the issues with "A Time of War", so I have little faith that any issues with this system will be addressed and every answer will be "That was what we intended".

To make a long story short, I have seen to much to give CGL the benefit of the doubt at this point.

[tenchi2a]

By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years.

I wanted to address this statement on it's own.
This has been a prevailing attitude from gaming companies in the last few years.
"If you don't like what we did to a game you have been supporting for and helping to keeping aloft for the last 25-35 years then go play something else"
To the best of my knowledge every dissenting voice so far on this forum, including mine, has said that they like most of the changes to the game.
All the issues I have seen or heard have been for things that could IMHO be fixed like: Armor not soaking, not true penalties, edge not effectively taking the place of the modifiers it was intended to replace and appearing gimmickie, etc. None of these are issues that could not be fix, but the response like always these days is "You are just the Oldguard That doesn't want change" so nothing has to be addressed.

Why can't this game or any other be for both the old players and the new?
Why does it have to be like everything we have done or get out.
FFG did the same thing with Legend of the five rings when they took it over.
But FFG got lucky with L5R in that they made it play close enough to Star Wars that they had a built in fan base after they drove-off all the old-time players.
Lets face it, no matter how popular your RPG may seem, it is still a niche game in a niche market.
Driving off fans you already have to try to get all new ones is never a good business strategy.
What should be done is trying to keep the fans you have and make new one.

I don't know about you but I have seen nothing here saying the system is horrible or just don't change my game.
Every complaint I have seen it a mechanic that seems off and players seem to be going out of their way to suggest or provide ideas to fix it.
Seems to me like a Oldguard Players base that is willing to make the change if some issues are addressed, but a company who doesn't care what its players think.

 

[Michael Chandra]

I'd say that the following topic from an old player gives a good impression what the new game is like for both old and new players: https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29452.0

I may not be an old player, but I did play SR4 for a while before switching to SR5 years ago and have been around long enough to know 'this will be weird, but let's give it a shot' counts for me.

[Shinobi Killfist]

By the way, if you fall into that group, try BattleTech™, their base rules haven't changed in 35 years.

I wanted to address this statement on it's own.
This have been a prevailing attitude from gaming companies in the last few years.
"If you don't like what we did to a game you have been supporting for and helping to keeping aloft for the last 25-35 years then go play something else"
To the best of my knowledge every dissenting voice so far on this forum, including mine, has said that they like most of the changes to the game.
All the issues I have seem or heard have been for things that could IMHO be fixed like: Armor not soaking, not true penalties, edge not effectively taking the place of the modifiers it was intended to replace and appearing gimmickie, etc. None of these are issues that could not be fix, but the response like always these days is "You are just the Oldguard That doesn't want change" so nothing has to be addressed.

Why can't this game or any other be for both the old players and the new?
Why does it have to be like everything we have done or get out.
FFG did the same thing with Legend of the five rings when they took it over.
But FFG got lucky with L5R in that they made it play close enough to Star Wars that they had a built in fan base after they drove-off all the old-time players.
Lets face it, no matter how popular your RPG may seem, it is still a niche game in a niche market.
Driving off fans you already have to try to get all new ones is never a good business strategy.
What should be done is trying to keep the fans you have and make new one.

I don't know about you but I have seen nothing here saying the system is horrible or just don't change my game.
Every complaint I have seen it a mechanic that seems off and players seem to be going out of their way to suggest or provide ideas to fix it.
Seems to me like a Oldguard Players base that is willing to make the change if some issues are addressed, but a company who doesn't care what its players think.

+1

[tenchi2a]

I'd say that the following topic from an old player gives a good impression what the new game is like for both old and new players: https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29452.0

I may not be an old player, but I did play SR4 for a while before switching to SR5 years ago and have been around long enough to know 'this will be weird, but let's give it a shot' counts for me.

I have read it, and here I would have to accuse you of cherry-picking, as most of the comments on this thread are making the same argument that I am.
And no where in that thread does it say that his kids would have liked it less if armor provided soak or there where modifiers that addressed the difficulties with firing at long range in the dark on a rainy day.
And the tread even brought up the issues with edge begging.

So overall I am not seeing this as a shining example of how everyone old and new is loving this game.

[adzling]

Chandra and Fastjack's comments re: the old guard no wanting change is clearly an attempt at apologizing for Catalyst's horrific design choices for 6e.

I've been playing srun since 1e, I agree wholeheartedly that 5e needs simplification and revisions to core rules mechanics that NEVER worked (matrix, riggers, ramming/ driving among others).

The points I have been making on these forums and elsewhere is NOT "change is bad", but rather "catalyst just tossed the baby out with the bathwater" when they built 6e.

Not only did they not listen to the playerbase but they developed their replacement in an echo-chamber with almost zero outside input.

The result is the ridiculousness of 6e where wearing a bikini is mechanically comparable to wearing an armored suit and helmet, or where a pixie with a sword does the same damage as a troll with a sword.

I could go on but it will have to wait until 6e gets released to the public.

So when you hear folks straw-manning those with significant and real concerns about 6e as "just angry grognards who dont want change" you can understand just how far down the rabbit hole they have gone.