[Lipe82]

Hey all. Me and my group are venturing into SR and some questions regarding Matrix are eluding us. Can you help us with these?

1 - in very short, crude way to speak, the role of a decker is basically placing marks on icons so that they acquire a degree of control to manipulate them?

2 - Living Personas of Technomancers can be switched into something else just like those of Deckers?

3 - Technomancers can do AR hacking too? Or is it only Hot Sim or nothing?

4 - as Technomancers's evolution depends mostly on Karma (whereas Deckers' need hard cash for upgrades), isn't there a tendency that in the long term, Deckers can "out-matrix" 'mancers (assuming both have a similar/same career of runs)?

Thanks in advance.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

1) There are three "worlds" to Shadowrun: Physical, Magic, and Matrix.  Almost any task can be accomplished in any of the three worlds. Need to get by a camera unseen? You can sneak past (physical), benefit from an improved invisibility spell (magic), or the hacker can edit the team out of the data feed (matrix).  Naturally, certain things are most easily accomplished in one world, and those things that are most easily accomplished via the matrix will be best done by a decker/technomancer.

2) Technomancers' Living Personae can run in AR and Hot Sim VR.  They cannot use the Cold Sim VR matrix user mode.

3) AR hacking is a thing.  (personally, I play a decker and generally I prefer AR whenever feasible... no biofeedback damage, you can still dodge incoming gunfire, etc )

4) Technomancers are to Deckers as Adepts are to Sammies.  (speaking personally, one of the reasons I don't like TMs is they can do everything a decker can do, without needing to spend resources, PLUS they get "matrix spells" and "matrix spirits" that deckers can't have.  They're better than deckers in about every way, yet conventional wisdom seems to be that TMs are somehow worse in every way. I totally don't understand how anyone thinks that, but lots do.)

[Lipe82]

Tha KS on the quick, great answer!
But to clarify on #1 - in Shadowrun, "to hack" is technically infecting a device with marks of your own, right?

Also - Technomancers can also place marks to accomplish matrix actions, outside of using their Forms, correct?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Tha KS on the quick, great answer!
But to clarify on #1 - in Shadowrun, "to hack" is technically infecting a device with marks of your own, right?

Also - Technomancers can also place marks to accomplish matrix actions, outside of using their Forms, correct?

Well Marks are a means to an end.  You DO stuff to devices as you hack them.  Editing your team out of the camera feed.  Making maglocks open. Decrypting paydata. Causing the cop's gun to turn its safety on instead of firing a bullet when the trigger is pulled.  Making the flavor nanites in Mr Johnson's soup broadcast a simsense signal smelling like poop rather than savory ramen.  You do the various Matrix Actions to hack.  The catch is each action requires a certain number of marks to be able to attempt those actions, so generally the first thing you do is start getting those marks.

Note that Kill Code and Data Trails have a bunch of expanded matrix actions.  Also, Kill Code has a much-needed rule where you can take a penalty to your dice pool in lieu of spending time getting marks, at -5 dice per mark.  For example, if you need a lock to open in a hurry and the GM says it takes 1 mark to force an emergency exit to blow open, you can speed things up an action by going right to the Control Device action at -5 dice rather than taking 2 passes to do it by getting your mark first.

Edit: And yes, TMs can do all the same matrix actions Deckers can do.

[Lipe82]

Awesome. Clarifying a few more into it:

1 - mostly, it's either Brute Force or Hack on the Fly to get those marks up your target, right?
2 - Technomancers cannot reset their "decks" in the sense of reorganizing attributes, correct?
3 - (kind of big question to me) what differs a decker/Technomancer from a Rigger, when it comes to "jumping in" to a vehicle? Just the rigging console initiative bonus? If that's the case, I can't see how it would pay off.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Awesome. Clarifying a few more into it:

1 - mostly, it's either Brute Force or Hack on the Fly to get those marks up your target, right?
2 - Technomancers cannot reset their "decks" in the sense of reorganizing attributes, correct?
3 - (kind of big question to me) what differs a decker/Technomancer from a Rigger, when it comes to "jumping in" to a vehicle? Just the rigging console initiative bonus? If that's the case, I can't see how it would pay off.

1) 99% yes. You can get down into the weeds with some arcane loopholes (like a device inviting marks) but generally your two options are Attack or Sleaze focused: Brute Force and Hack on the Fly.

2) 100% correct.  Although, since their Living Persona is based on mental attributes, the friendly neighborhood mage can always cast and sustain Enhance Attribute to indirectly buff the correlating matrix attribute.

3) Without a Control Rig (or the appropriate Complex Form) you simply can't Jump In to a vehicle.  It's not possible.  Note that you can still use Control Device to drive around vehicles/drones without Jumping In.

[Lipe82]

Note that you can still use Control Device to drive around vehicles/drones without Jumping In.

Am I abusing of your patience by asking what are the practical differences?

(also noted, regarding my original post - so, can Technomancers change the appearance of their Living Persona? Is that crafted "at will", or is it definitive, or they can like, "download" from a templatebank and tweak it?)

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Yep, the Living Persona is in the end just another matrix icon.  You can change what it looks like via the Change Icon matrix action (pg 238)

As for the differences between remote control and jumped in:  You'll want to read the control hierarchy (Control Override, pg 265).  Aside from that, the difference between remote control and jumped in is basically thematic.  When jumped in, the vehicle/drone becomes your new body.  When remote controlling, you're driving a RC vehicle.  You can view sensor feeds from the drone, but it doesn't feel like you're physically in the drone's place literally seeing what the drone sees.  In the case of a Control Rig, it gives mechanical bonuses which of course won't apply if you don't have one.  (I had assumed there was some Technomancer ability you can buy that emulates a Control Rig, but I'm not finding it right now.  Maybe I assumed wrong and there isn't one.)

Not including the Control Rig bonuses, the dice you roll to control a drone/vehicle thru the matrix are the same whether you're Jumped In or using the Control Device matrix action.  (although, do note that what exactly that dice pool IS is a paradox in 5e, and hasn't ever been formally errata'd yet.  You'll want your GM to decide for the campaign what stats you'll be using while in VR before you finalize your character)

If I'm missing a way for TMs to Rig without having to pay essence for a Control Rig, I'm sure someone will chime in with that before long

[Lipe82]

Amazing!

Finally, non-rules related, but relevant: around what time did Technomancers "appear"?
What would be a reasonable "limit date" to play them?
I ask this because I'm planning on running "Super Tuesday" to my players.

[Michael Chandra]

Since the Second Matrix Crash in '64 (hi Deus! bye Deus!), though it took longer for them to become known in detail. In 2070 things went crazy and public. They're basically the successors of the Otaku. So they're too young for Super Tuesday.

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Technomancer for a timeline.

[Sphinx]

Finally, non-rules related, but relevant: around what time did Technomancers "appear"? What would be a reasonable "limit date" to play them?

Technomancers appeared after Crash 2.0 (November 2, 2064). They couldn't exist before the introduction of the wireless Matrix. Before that, otaku were fundamentally similar to technomancers, but they needed a datajack to interface with the wired Matrix. See the "Otaku to Technomancer" quality in Data Trails (p.45). If you were thinking of running Super Tuesday (set in 2057) in Fifth Edition, the technomancer rules should work fine for otaku, with the added restriction that they need to jack in.