[Hephaestus]

In the "Exotic Weapons and Spray Example" on page 118, it states the car resists damage with Body x 2, but there are no entries in the actual rules to state this is true. Is this the case?

By this logic, a GMC Bulldog gets 32 soak dice.

[Hobbes]

Skimming the likely rules sections didn't turn up anything for me.  Probably one for the Errata team unless it's tucked away somewhere.

[Michael Chandra]

There's a part in the ramming section, which also talks about CM and wound modifiers for vehicles, so I'd consider it leading though hidden poorly:

Individuals and vehicles alike resist
the damage with their Body. Vehicles have a single
Condition Monitor that is (Body / 2) + 8. Their
Handling increases by 1 for every three boxes of
damage, and they break down when the entire
Condition Monitor is filled up.

[Hephaestus]

There's a part in the ramming section, which also talks about CM and wound modifiers for vehicles, so I'd consider it leading though hidden poorly:

Individuals and vehicles alike resist
the damage with their Body. Vehicles have a single
Condition Monitor that is (Body / 2) + 8. Their
Handling increases by 1 for every three boxes of
damage, and they break down when the entire
Condition Monitor is filled up.

Yeah, I saw that too. I had figured they kept the negative penalty per 3 boxes, but the single condition monitor is a step in the right direction.

But, it doesn't answer whether vehicles soak damage with BOD or BODx2. The example on pg. 118 states:

STEP 4: SOAK SOME DAMAGE
Carson rolls Body 6 against the modified Damage Value of the flamethrower, 3P (Base 3P - 1 sweeping + 1 net hit). He gets 2 hits. Things are not looking good.
The Westwind rolls Body x 2 ( 8 ) against the modified Damage Value of the flamethrower, 7P (Base 3P - 1 sweeping + 5 net hits). The car manages 5 hits.

My understanding was that vehicle soak with BOD just like characters (since there are no rules discussing it), but this seems to say otherwise.

And as an aside, the vehicle section lists the Westwind as having 6 BOD, so the example is wrong either way.

[Michael Chandra]

That section explicitly states they resist ramming damage with Body, just like people, so while not 100% explicit it's enough indication that the example is wrong.

[FastJack]

There's a part in the ramming section, which also talks about CM and wound modifiers for vehicles, so I'd consider it leading though hidden poorly:

Individuals and vehicles alike resist
the damage with their Body. Vehicles have a single
Condition Monitor that is (Body / 2) + 8. Their
Handling increases by 1 for every three boxes of
damage, and they break down when the entire
Condition Monitor is filled up.

Yeah, I saw that too. I had figured they kept the negative penalty per 3 boxes, but the single condition monitor is a step in the right direction.

But, it doesn't answer whether vehicles soak damage with BOD or BODx2. The example on pg. 118 states:

STEP 4: SOAK SOME DAMAGE
Carson rolls Body 6 against the modified Damage Value of the flamethrower, 3P (Base 3P - 1 sweeping + 1 net hit). He gets 2 hits. Things are not looking good.
The Westwind rolls Body x 2 ( 8 ) against the modified Damage Value of the flamethrower, 7P (Base 3P - 1 sweeping + 5 net hits). The car manages 5 hits.

My understanding was that vehicle soak with BOD just like characters (since there are no rules discussing it), but this seems to say otherwise.

And as an aside, the vehicle section lists the Westwind as having 6 BOD, so the example is wrong either way.

The Errata document changed p. 115 to having he bike rolling Body 4 for the soak dice and listed the bikes having Body 4 earlier in the example. And again, the Errata document changed it so the bikes rolled Body 4 in the example on p. 116. Because of that, I have in my notes (I'm still gathering some for posting) that the Westwind should probably be rolling Body 6 for soak (granted, the example seems unlikely then, since it got five hits).

[Michael Chandra]

As any summoner can tell you, the chance to score 5 hits on 6 dice is 'too high'. The chance to then roll 1 hit on the REROLLED drain roll also is 'too high'.

[Jimmy_Pvish]

Didn't ALL vehicle stat need to be overhaul?
 
Right now, driving any vehicle is the most dangerous thing in shadowrun.

Dodging a bullet is safer than driving a car and I didn't even taking about driving fast, it's driving at any speed.

Average dude with 2 Reaction with journeyman level at piloting (skill rank 3) and even specialize in ground craft (+2) has 7 dice when driving a car.

This dude is driving family sedan (Ford America) at 20km/h (12.5mph).
That 16 meter per 3 second, yes, very very slow, my grandma can outrun this car.

This person need 4 hit to handle his Ford Americar and he's even suffer -1 dice for driving at 20km/h.

He roll 6 dices and need 4 hit?

Yup, good luck with that, chum.

Final verdict: Don't get into any vehicle in shadowrun, it's dead on wheels.

[Michael Chandra]

The conclusion: Don't do vehicle STUNTS if your car and driving both suck: "Normal vehicle operation does not require a test."

[penllawen]

I've never been clear on how much "normal operation" covers, for manual driving and for auto pilots. Emergency stops if people step into the road? Merging into fast-moving traffic? Swerving around someone who just pulled out in front of you?

[Jimmy_Pvish]

The conclusion: Don't do vehicle STUNTS if your car and driving both suck: "Normal vehicle operation does not require a test."

Doing something normal like avoid unexpected pedestrian is a handling test.
P.199
"When a pedestrian unexpectedly enters the street ahead of her, she has to make a Handling test to avoid them"

Racing car like Shin-hyung still suffer -4 dice at 100km/h (can't even call fast) and need 3 hit to avoid accident.
5 Reaction person with advance professional skill level (5) still fail most of time of that test.

For normal person with journeyman skill level (reaction 2, skill 3) with normal car (speed interval 20, 4 hit threshold).
They can't avoid any accident AT ALL when driving above 40km/h. (-2 dice, 3 dice roll with threshold 4).
Even when driving at 20km/h, they still suffer an accident 99 times out of 100. (4 dice with threshold 4).

[Finstersang]

There's a part in the ramming section, which also talks about CM and wound modifiers for vehicles, so I'd consider it leading though hidden poorly:

Individuals and vehicles alike resist
the damage with their Body. Vehicles have a single
Condition Monitor that is (Body / 2) + 8. Their
Handling increases by 1 for every three boxes of
damage, and they break down when the entire
Condition Monitor is filled up.

Seems a lot like CGL´s editing best practice of nesting broader rules in the description of more specific rules, so that you can´t really tell when it applies.

[Michael Chandra]

Gamemasters can
increase or decrease that threshold based on the
difficulty of the attempted maneuver.

Since the baseline is "make a hairpin turn at high speeds", I don't see why any GM would not decrease the threshold.

Also, a John Doe will be using GridGuide, which drives the car and has the pedestrian noticed by a random other car and then immediately plans the movement for all GridGuide cars to avoid the pedestrian. No test needed.

[Jimmy_Pvish]

P.204
Eye-fiver go-ganger (reaction 2, piloting 2), riding a famous ganger bike, a Scorpion (Handle 3, speed interval 30).

They do what Go-ganger do, anything that need handle test.

Will crash 89% of the time when riding under 30 km/h.
Will crash 96% of the time when riding 30-59 km/h.
Will crash ALL THE TIME, when riding over 60 km/h.

Go-ganger in shadowrun is kinda cute.
Considering that they're still around and not all die, meaning that they're riding very slowly and follow all traffic rule.

[Michael Chandra]

Nah, they're just driving dangerously, not doing stunts. If a player drives fast, that's not a problem. If they start trying to ram...