[penllawen]

I would absolutely not let someone trade in a Major for  Four Minor actions, because that's not a thing. Re-read pg 40:

I know it's not a thing, which is why it's not what I said. Let me emphasis and reword for clairty:

...are you going to let them trade the Major for a single Minor action and defend themselves?

But onwards.

In other words: If you only have a Major and you want to dodge, you just spend the Major.

Hang on, so now you've argued a character can spend one Major action to perform a Minor action at some point out of their turn, but they cannot spend four Minor actions to perform a Major action at some other point in their turn? Am I reading this right? Here's the quotes again:

If you only have a Major and you want to dodge, you just spend the Major.  You don't get to convert to 4 Minors then just spend a Minor....The rule allows you to spend four Minor actions in place of a Major, it doesn't technically allow you to convert 4 Minors into 1 Major.

My understanding is that trading minors in for a major is not an "anytime" activity. Ergo, you can't do It until your Player Turn begins, and by then you're down to your cap of 5 minors.

I don't see how these posts don't contradict each other. In particular, I don't understand why you've shifted from talking about "trading" to talking about "it doesn't technically allow you to convert".

[penllawen]

Edit: Re-checked the CRB.  There are 2 (A)nytime Major Actions: participating in a teamwork test and counterspelling.

Then you missed Intercept and Full Defence, both of which I mentioned above.

[Michael Chandra]

I strongly suspect the limit of 5 originates from when each die gave a Minor, and is there in case future books let people score extra Minors. We'll see if it turns out to be 6 after errata or not, I myself prefer it at 6.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I don't see how these posts don't contradict each other. In particular, I don't understand why you've shifted from talking about "trading" to talking about "it doesn't technically allow you to convert".

Because honestly, until re-reading the rule closely I fell victim to the groupthink of equating "spending 4" with "trading in 4".

If we're in agreement that you can absolutely spend a Major for ONE Minor anytime you want to spend a Minor, or four Minors for a Major anytime you want to spend a Major, then yes we're in agreement.

And this agreement should extend to acknowledging that it's impossible to save a sixth minor by starting a Player turn with 2 Major actions.  You can save a potential sixth minor action from being lost by spending it before your Player Turn begins: either on its own as an anytime Minor before your turn begins or as a group of 4 minors spent to perform an anytime Major before your turn begins.

[ZeroSum]

I think we're all in agreement, honestly.

• If you have a way of getting +5d6 initiative dice, you start the combat round with 1 Major Action and 6 Minor Actions.
• You can only start your player turn with 1 Major and 5 Minor actions.
• If you start your player turn with 1 Major and more than 5 Minor Actions, you lose excess Minor Actions
• You can spend Minor Actions on the following at any time during the combat round: Avoid Incoming, Block, Change Device Mode, Dodge, Drop Object, Hit The Dit, and Intercept)
• You can spend Major Actions on the following at any time during the combat round: Assist (has to be done before the Leader's player turn), Counterspell, and Full Defense
• When taking a Major Action, including Anytime Actions, you can instead choose to use 4 Minor Actions to do so; note that this does not give you 1 Major Action to use later, it only allows you to immediately spend 4 Minor Actions to do a 1 Major Action
• When taking a Minor Action, including Anytime Actions, you can instead choose to use 1 Major Action to do so; note that this does not give you 4 Minor Actions to use later, it only allows you to immediately spend 1 Major Action to perform 1 Minor Action

Did I miss anything?

[Xenon]

and Intercept
...
Did I miss anything?

(I think you covered it all, just wanted to add that you need to have both a spare Major and a spare Minor in order to take the Intercept anytime action)

[penllawen]

If we're in agreement that you can absolutely spend a Major for ONE Minor anytime you want to spend a Minor, or four Minors for a Major anytime you want to spend a Major, then yes we're in agreement.

And this agreement should extend to acknowledging that it's impossible to save a sixth minor by starting a Player turn with 2 Major actions.  You can save a potential sixth minor action from being lost by spending it before your Player Turn begins: either on its own as an anytime Minor before your turn begins or as a group of 4 minors spent to perform an anytime Major before your turn begins.

Riiight, yes. Now I see what you mean and yes, I agree.

(I still don’t see why initiative dice and minor actions have different caps and I still think that’s silly. If the caps are harmonised, a lot of the messiness we just chewed over for two pages vanishes.)

[skalchemist]

• If you have a way of getting +5d6 initiative dice, you start the combat round with 1 Major Action and 6 Minor Actions.
• You can only start your player turn with 1 Major and 5 Minor actions.

I really hadn't picked up this distinction between the max number of initiative dice and the max number of minor actions until this thread.  That seems so much like a mistake that I feel like it has to be a mistake.  If you just turn that 5 into a 6 in that 2nd bullet point, as penllawen says, it becomes completely unnecessary and the rule is quite simple.  Everybody earns their alloted actions at the start of the round and uses them in any legal fashion during the round; any left at the end are lost and a new bunch is handed out at the start of the next round.

Conceivably, you could physically track them using one big token and 1 to 6 small tokens.  Literally spend them into the pool in the center of the table during the turn as you use them.

[Michael Chandra]

I need to start figuring out whether pokerchips or colored stones should be used for the Edge, and use the other for Actions.

And yeah, like I mentioned, I personally believe the limit of 5 is a mistake left behind by rule evolution. We'll see what errata says.

[Finstersang]

Side note: I´m currently toying with a houserule Edge boost to convert Edge into additional Minor Actions, to help smooth out the Action economy when needed. Think 2-3 for a Minor in your own turn and 3-4 to buy a Minor outside your turn as a reaction, depending on the chosen houserules for the other Edge Limitations.

I´m removing the Minor Action Limit as well. If these 2 houserules combined mean that some hyper-specialized Speedlord can boost up to 3 Majors every once in a while, I´m absolutely fine with that. Cinematic shit ftw

[Giabralter]

I was wondering about actions that cost more than one minor action would be of value. it's probably more complex given the interaction with other rules. The example I was thinking of was ready weapon and reload weapon for pistols costing 2 minor actions each. And then equipment like quickdraw holster and smartlink would be defined as reducing minor action cost by 1. More gradient in action cost.

[ZeroSum]

I was wondering about actions that cost more than one minor action would be of value. it's probably more complex given the interaction with other rules. The example I was thinking of was ready weapon and reload weapon for pistols costing 2 minor actions each. And then equipment like quickdraw holster and smartlink would be defined as reducing minor action cost by 1. More gradient in action cost.

I personally think it should cost more to reload a cylinder or an internal magazine than a clip, for example, but then again one of the design goals of SR6 was to streamline.

The most valuable question I can think of is this; what value does this added complexity bring. If the answer justifies the added complexity, then go for it.

[FastJack]

I was wondering about actions that cost more than one minor action would be of value. it's probably more complex given the interaction with other rules. The example I was thinking of was ready weapon and reload weapon for pistols costing 2 minor actions each. And then equipment like quickdraw holster and smartlink would be defined as reducing minor action cost by 1. More gradient in action cost.

I personally think it should cost more to reload a cylinder or an internal magazine than a clip, for example, but then again one of the design goals of SR6 was to streamline.

The most valuable question I can think of is this; what value does this added complexity bring. If the answer justifies the added complexity, then go for it.

Not so, Police have been using speed-loaders for cylinders for decades now: Speedloaders

[ZeroSum]

I was wondering about actions that cost more than one minor action would be of value. it's probably more complex given the interaction with other rules. The example I was thinking of was ready weapon and reload weapon for pistols costing 2 minor actions each. And then equipment like quickdraw holster and smartlink would be defined as reducing minor action cost by 1. More gradient in action cost.

I personally think it should cost more to reload a cylinder or an internal magazine than a clip, for example, but then again one of the design goals of SR6 was to streamline.

The most valuable question I can think of is this; what value does this added complexity bring. If the answer justifies the added complexity, then go for it.

Not so, Police have been using speed-loaders for cylinders for decades now: Speedloaders

I completely agree with that, FastJack, and so does SR6. There is even a piece of equipment called a ... you guessed it ... "Speed Loader"

That being said, I could have been more clear. I was actually referring to putting bullets into a cylinder or an internal magazine (like on a shotgun) one by one.

Again, though, I'm not sure that level of granularity adds any value to SR6 when the stated intent is to streamline. A reload action is a Major Action that lets you reload to full capacity.

If, like Giabraltar stated, one wanted to change the action efficiency by introducing actions that cost more than 1 minor action, such as reloading a weapon like a pistol with 2 minor actions instead of 1 major action, my personal opinion is that yes, this makes sense from a realism perspective but I'm not sure it does from an SR6 streamlining perspective.

Is that more clear?

EDIT:
The speed loader in SR6 already lets you spend a Minor Action instead of a Major action to reload a revolver. Perhaps an alternate approach to changing up action economy is to introduce other pieces of gear instead of multi-Minor Action ... actions.

[Michael Chandra]

There's things that go 'if you do Minor X, get a free Minor' which I prefer over '2 Minors, 1 with gear X' since it's easier to remember and doesn't force you to run out of Minors way too fast. I prefer 1-Minor or '0'-Minor (still need one to spend and get it back) Actions, since there's plenty of things for you to do with your Minors. Including keeping them at hand for defensive actions.