[Michael Chandra]

No, it's 33%/33%/33%. You forgot 1% "Perfectly Ruined Forever At Last Shut Up So We Can Play Something Else!".

[Lormyr]

And yet, the sales are still going up. Weird how that is.

I can only speculate, and in fairness I have no actual idea how strongly this does or does not apply to this particular case, but lots of people leap before they look. My personal experience and observations have been that this is especially endemic when it comes to the nerd (said with affection) community and buying games. I know an absolutely ludicrous amount of people that bought new games before they ever tried them or read them, many of which still sit unused on shelves.

I am confident that anyone who has extensive friends in the community would find the same upon honest reflection.

[Finstersang]

It’s fair to criticize some of the errors. It’s not fair to assume CGL doesn’t give a drek about the product because it was released with flaws. There’s a lot that goes into the supply chain management that most people don’t know anything about. Sometimes it really is better to release something you know needs work on time than to release far outside your best release window. Trust me, we do it with software every single day.

Yeah, but you would be a little bit more carefull if you had to print out the software for distribution, right? 

I´ll leave it to you of it´s fair that CGL doesn´t give a drek about Shadowrun as a franchise, but it´s definetely fair to claim that they don´t don´t give a drek about the community, even before these statements. Many of the most frequently criticed problems of the previous edition - and most importantly, the horribly bad editing in general! - are not only alive and well, but even worse this time. It sometimes feels like as if most of the community feedback was used to find ways to further disimprove the game.

"What, spirits are broken? Great, let´s remove the need for binding and change the damage/soak balance in a way that makes even more invincible  "

[Plan_B]

Yeah, but you would be a little bit more carefull if you had to print out the software for distribution, right? 

Well, seeing as I am the QA lead for a rather large platform with international use, I can tell you that my team and I work extremely hard to make sure the product is as good as it can be. Sometimes, however, you know that you absolutely have to put a release out even if there are known issues with it because business demands dictate it. I've had more than one conversation with the product owner about these known issues and that we have to put the release out and then fix the problems in the next go-around. Honestly, I don't think people who don't work in vaguely related fields can really understand what it's like and all the internal and external factors that go into the decision making process. I've got a software release this week that I'm working my hoop off to make sure everything is ready. It's almost there but there's one rather big thing that isn't ready yet. It's not critical to platform operations but, if we get it nailed down in time, will save me literally a day of work and prevent us from having to deal with an annoyed client because of how long a change takes. We can't delay the release, however, so...

[Reaver]

... but it´s definetely fair to claim that they don´t don´t give a drek about the community, even before these statements....

Care to tell me which community he doesn't care about?
The Reddit community?
The Twitter community?
The Facebook community?
The Forum community?
The Wiki Community?
The Flat Earth community?

Maybe you missed the point of Hardy's post. Maybe you haven't been paying attention to Social Media....

But there are LOTS of "communities" out there... And they are all little tribal fiefdoms, and NONE of them represent the total player base. But what they all have in common is that they all like their narrow little focus on one part of Shadowrun.... And rarely do these groups have a lot of overlap....

Twitter likes the social commentary of Shadowrun.. and wants all the social issues cleaned up so it works with their narrow view of the Shadowrun Social systems...

Reddit likes the crunch side of Shadowrun, and hates it when people limit or remove their "crunch" as they feel it limits their options....

Facebook loves the matrix and wants to see it stream lined even more into a narrative system with no dice used at all...

The Flat Earthers love the fact that their are magical races in SR, and want more of them... Especially a lizard race to help prove their claims that the lizard people really rule the planet....

And on it goes....


And the ONE thing they all have in common is that they will ALL whine and cry on their chosen platform WHEN or IF Hardy even mentions one of their pet topics, and they don't agree with what he said.... There is nothing he can say that will make all of the groups happy... So why bother?

IF no matter what you say is going to result in 70% of the "communties" grabbing pitchforks.. why bother saying anything at all?

[wraith]

Yet the one thing that every platform, even this forum agrees on is that the editing is somehow worse than the terrible editing that plagued SR5, and has been a known and widely bitched about problem for seven years. 

But nah, it's just people upset about their pet issues.   

[GuardDuty]

The Flat Earthers love the fact that their are magical races in SR, and want more of them... Especially a lizard race to help prove their claims that the lizard people really rule the planet....

Oh, please don't give them any ideas...

[Reaver]

Yet the one thing that every platform, even this forum agrees on is that the editing is somehow worse than the terrible editing that plagued SR5, and has been a known and widely bitched about problem for seven years. 

But nah, it's just people upset about their pet issues.   

Re-read my first post...

The are, and always will be issues in SR.

I am speaking to the volume of which some do cry fowl....


Everyone demands things "for the community".... even if that is a community of one, or one million.... and with the breath of communities out there... the true number is closer to one than to one million... and when start "demanding" (as some communities have), why bother when you already know they just get more riled up (usually because you didn't drop everything to do it their way)...

And if you think I'm wrong... look at the products of many companies that caved to "community" pressure before. They have found out that community != sales.

[wraith]

So your issue isn't that the game has notable, publicly called out issues, it's that people are complaining about it louder than you prefer?

[FastJack]

1st Edition: God, the matrix sucks! Every time it's the Decker's turn, we have to wait until the GM and the player do there one-on-one before getting back to the action!. And magic is so overpowered! How can my cybered-up samurai be knocked out by one spell!!

2nd Edition: Sure, they fixed X, but Y is still broken!!

3rd Edition: What the hell is with the Action figures! They've ruined Shadowrun forever.

4th Edition: Wireless? Now anyone with a commlink can hack my cool cyberarm?? And they've totally fragged over magic by making Shamans and Hermetics use the same rules!

5th Edition: Crying out loud! Technomancers can do anything and are ruining my cool characters! And there's too much power behind spirits! And don't even get me started on Skill Limits....

[Michael Chandra]

Got to love how I'm always treated as not part of the community by nay-sayers. I believe SR5 editing was worse? I'm not even considered part of this forum. To do something I haven't done in, like, forever: Despite years of inactivity I'm still #3 in post-count. And when it comes to angry people: I probably am in the top ten of received warnings without a permanent ban, thanks to the expiration time. How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

[Reaver]

Got to love how I'm always treated as not part of the community...

Shuddup and git back in your dank dark corner of the forums where you belong!!!

[Michael Chandra]

Got to love how I'm always treated as not part of the community...

Shuddup and git back in your dank dark corner of the forums where you belong!!!

Getting angrier and more active!

[Golbez]

I disagree but also agree with Jason Hardy.

I agree that an ongoing discussion on any platform will lead to nowhere, because views can not be easily changed. Because good luck converting/persuasing an online persona who is upset or doesn't like something..
And of course, he is responsible for this product, and will need to stand behind his/their choices (to some extent)

Nevertheless I disagree with the complete radio silence and complete lack of interaction with the community on any platform.
Updates, Progress info, Acknowledgements of certain issues etc.  are vital to keep a franchise and community going.

Personally I was very hyped for 6th Edition, coming from 2nd Edition and with a good 20 year break of Shadowrun GMing and Roleplaying I was ready to jump in the GM chair again and run a new Shadowrun campaign with 6th edition. Bought the CRB PDF, agreed to give the Edge metagame, Armor soak and Melee changes a try, but.... I couldn't fall in love.

Maybe because I skipped the previous versions, I couldn't connect with this whole ruleset, It just goes all around the place (2nd Edition also fried your brain though..) It still feels like there is for each type of character a separate ruleset inside the ruleset, not a real streamlined cohesion between them all, still a lot of specific rules and exceptions to look up.

But alas, probably because I got older  and experienced other systems which are more my current taste, this edition fell short to pull me back in, and that is a shame because i would love to see again a big Troll waving a minigun around.

[Michael Chandra]

Nevertheless I disagree with the complete radio silence and complete lack of interaction with the community on any platform.
Updates, Progress info, Acknowledgements of certain issues etc.  are vital to keep a franchise and community going.

Completely agree there. They need some media management.