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Making Sure I've got the Matrix Straight

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Jarrod

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« on: <11-03-19/1609:04> »
Just looking to make sure I go this straight.

If I Probe/Back Door Entry a device that's not slaved (on a PAN or in a Host), the device opposes only with Mental Attribute dice of owner. Right?
If it is slaved, I am opposed by the master dice pools. Right?
You can't Probe/Back Door slaved devices directly, you have to hack the Master (Commlink/Cyberdeck/Host).  Right?
If I get access to the Master, I have that save level of access to all slaves devices.  Right?
The slave devices still get Master dice pools right, you just have the same access level to them as you have to the Master.

Banshee

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« Reply #1 on: <11-03-19/1731:14> »
Yes. Except for the one caveat that if the device is not part of a network and does have it's own attributes it can use this and/or its owners mentals.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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MTCE

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« Reply #2 on: <11-06-19/1706:55> »
Are you sure on these rules? Can you point me to the page where it says so? My group and I have been having this exact discussion (repeatedly).

Shadowjack

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« Reply #3 on: <11-06-19/1804:11> »
One thing I was wondering is how you are supposed to find a particular file you're hired to acquire. I've been using matrix perception but it's kind of gimmicky because if they can't find the file the run is basically a bust, failing a perception roll or two and failing the run resultantly is not fun.
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Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <11-06-19/1829:57> »
Are you sure on these rules?
He wrote them =)


One thing I was wondering is how you are supposed to find a particular file you're hired to acquire.
With the Hash Check action.

Banshee

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« Reply #5 on: <11-06-19/1838:28> »
Are you sure on these rules?
He wrote them =)


One thing I was wondering is how you are supposed to find a particular file you're hired to acquire.
With the Hash Check action.

Yep
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Shadowjack

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« Reply #6 on: <11-06-19/1849:50> »
Thanks, guys, I completely forgot about hash checks. I notice its an illegal action but requires electronics. Are all such instances erroneous? Earlier in the chapter the book states that illegal actions require cracking and legal require electronics.
Show me your wallet and I'll show you a man with 20 fingers.

MTCE

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« Reply #7 on: <11-06-19/1903:59> »
OK. No offense meant, rules-writer. Can you still point me to the correct page, though? Thanks!

Banshee

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« Reply #8 on: <11-07-19/0659:41> »
MTCE ... I will try to dig up page references for when I have chance to sit down with the book, so not ignoring you just can't right now.

Shadowjack... that's one of those cases of general vs specific. The base that I started with but then deviated away from as things developed in more detail. To be honest I pushed to get of legality on actions all together as I thought it made more sense to base it on access. In other words who cared what action you were taking if you had illegally gained access to the network?
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Shadowjack

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« Reply #9 on: <11-07-19/0723:14> »
Unfortunately, the disclaimer of legal being electronics and illegal being cracking is contradictory in quite a few cases, it would have been better to omit the disclaimer or actually adhere to it. It sounds like you may have been outvoted, which is unfortunate.
Show me your wallet and I'll show you a man with 20 fingers.

Banshee

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« Reply #10 on: <11-07-19/0752:57> »
Unfortunately, the disclaimer of legal being electronics and illegal being cracking is contradictory in quite a few cases, it would have been better to omit the disclaimer or actually adhere to it. It sounds like you may have been outvoted, which is unfortunate.

Yep, also you could do what I often do when running a table. I often don't even pay attention to the specific actions unless the player really knows their stuff and just go with the "what are trying to do?" Then is it legal? To determine what skill to use. It all depends on the skill level and amount of minutiae you want to get in to.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
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Xenon

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« Reply #11 on: <11-07-19/1350:26> »
Lets break down the original questions then shall we.


If I Probe/Back Door Entry a device that's not slaved (on a PAN or in a Host), the device opposes only with Mental Attribute dice of owner. Right?
Devices in general does no have a Firewall or Data Processing rating of their own. In order for a device to gain access to a Firewall rating it generally have to be behind a network that consist of a Host, Commlink, RCC, Cyberjack or Living Network. But of course if it happen to have a Firewall of its own then it get to use that when not connected to a network.



If it is slaved, I am opposed by the master dice pools. Right?
Yes.


SR6 p. 174 Devices
everyone has a commlink ... They are used for rudimentary access, most commonly for commcalls and searches, as well as basic Matrix Firewall defense for devices attached to the user’s PAN.



You can't Probe/Back Door slaved devices directly, you have to hack the Master (Commlink/Cyberdeck/Host).  Right?
Yes, but rather than trying to figure out master-and-slave-relationships you basically only need to understand which 'network' the device is connected to.

Some actions don't require access and can be taken towards a device directly even if the device is hiding behind a 'network'.

Other actions require that you first get into the 'network'.

If you successfully take the probe + backdoor entry actions against a PAN then you will be considered to be on the 'inside' which mean you now are free to take actions that require user or admin access (on anything that is connected to the 'network').



If I get access to the Master, I have that save level of access to all slaves devices.  Right?
Yes, but again, rather think of it as you gain access to the whole 'network' rather than just a specific 'master device'.


SR6 p. 176 Matrix Access and Pans
On the user side, the Matrix is built around the Personal Area Network (PAN). These are networks composed of a commlink and/or a deck, with a small number of devices slaved behind it. Generally speaking, in order to get to a device attached to a PAN, one must first gain access to that PAN.



The slave devices still get Master dice pools right, you just have the same access level to them as you have to the Master.
Yes, but again in this edition you don't really need to think about slaves and masters.

If someone is attacking a device in your PAN then it is you (matrix attributes of your matrix persona and mental attributes of your meat character) that is defending the device.
« Last Edit: <11-07-19/1354:27> by Xenon »

Shadowjack

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« Reply #12 on: <11-07-19/1809:46> »
Unfortunately, the disclaimer of legal being electronics and illegal being cracking is contradictory in quite a few cases, it would have been better to omit the disclaimer or actually adhere to it. It sounds like you may have been outvoted, which is unfortunate.

Yep, also you could do what I often do when running a table. I often don't even pay attention to the specific actions unless the player really knows their stuff and just go with the "what are trying to do?" Then is it legal? To determine what skill to use. It all depends on the skill level and amount of minutiae you want to get in to.

I do like doing that :) I'd prefer to master the rules but in a pinch, an estimation suffices.
Show me your wallet and I'll show you a man with 20 fingers.