[Trim2060]

Do race qualities count to the maximum of 6?

[Shadowjack]

No. You get your racial qualities and up to six additional qualities. This is for positive and negative combined. For example, if you have two racials, six positive, you cannot add a negative.

[Michael Chandra]

The racial qualities are listed as a free bonus (p63, Attributes, second paragraph), so yeah, no karma cost or quality-allotment involved.

[imthedci]

I hate to steal this thread, but my sewing machine is running out  , it's the same sorta subject, and I can't think of a better place to ask this...

I know that during character creation you can only take a maximum of 6 qualities and you can't gain more than 25 net karma from taking negative qualities, but what do you pay for positive qualities with? Do you get a certain karma amount of qualities for free? Do you have to pay for them by balancing the positive qualities with negative qualities? or Do you have to pay for them with your bonus karma?

At first I thought they were paid for using the 50 bonus karma you get at character creation, but then I noticed that you don't get the bonus karma until the step after you pick the qualities and I remember reading on here somewhere that you're not supposed to go out of order with the steps during character creation.

[skalchemist]

I hate to steal this thread, but my sewing machine is running out  , it's the same sorta subject, and I can't think of a better place to ask this...

I know that during character creation you can only take a maximum of 6 qualities and you can't gain more than 25 net karma from taking negative qualities, but what do you pay for positive qualities with? Do you get a certain karma amount of qualities for free? Do you have to pay for them by balancing the positive qualities with negative qualities? or Do you have to pay for them with your bonus karma?

At first I thought they were paid for using the 50 bonus karma you get at character creation, but then I noticed that you don't get the bonus karma until the step after you pick the qualities and I remember reading on here somewhere that you're not supposed to go out of order with the steps during character creation.

I can't answer this question with absolute certainty, but here is how I think it works (and how it works in both of the automated character creation systems I am aware of).

All that matters is the final state of the character, that is, no more than 6 qualities and no more than 75 70 net karma spent.    Don't get bogged down in what things are paying for what other things, or whether it is coming out of the base karma or the extra karma, or stuff like that.  Ignore the exact order of the steps in character creation with respect to this issue.  Just make sure the final character is legal (as described above), and you are fine.

[Banshee]

I hate to steal this thread, but my sewing machine is running out  , it's the same sorta subject, and I can't think of a better place to ask this...

I know that during character creation you can only take a maximum of 6 qualities and you can't gain more than 25 net karma from taking negative qualities, but what do you pay for positive qualities with? Do you get a certain karma amount of qualities for free? Do you have to pay for them by balancing the positive qualities with negative qualities? or Do you have to pay for them with your bonus karma?

At first I thought they were paid for using the 50 bonus karma you get at character creation, but then I noticed that you don't get the bonus karma until the step after you pick the qualities and I remember reading on here somewhere that you're not supposed to go out of order with the steps during character creation.

I can't answer this question with absolute certainty, but here is how I think it works (and how it works in both of the automated character creation systems I am aware of).

All that matters is the final state of the character, that is, no more than 6 qualities and no more than 75 net karma spent.    Don't get bogged down in what things are paying for what other things, or whether it is coming out of the base karma or the extra karma, or stuff like that.  Ignore the exact order of the steps in character creation with respect to this issue.  Just make sure the final character is legal (as described above), and you are fine.

Exactly this ... the step order is not critical as as you don't violate a process along the way. So yes ... positive qualities are paid for with a combination of karma gained from negative qualities and the starting 50

[Michael Chandra]

The net karma bonus or cost impacts the 50, so you can go anywhere from -50 to +20 on the qualities.

[skalchemist]

The net karma bonus or cost impacts the 50, so you can go anywhere from -50 to +20 on the qualities.

Michael, you are right, its +20, not +25 as I suggested in my post above. I've corrected myself.

[Leith]

"Positive qualities have a karma cost that you must pay in character creation," Pg 70.

[SavarWallk]

Buying qualities bad to good are 1 to 1.
Bad to karma is 1 to 1.
Karma to good is 2 to 1.

I say order matters.

[Michael Chandra]

Inside the quality phase, it's still 1:1, even if you buy more positive than you have negatives. In character advancement, the 2:1 applies.

[SavarWallk]

Inside the quality phase, it's still 1:1, even if you buy more positive than you have negatives. In character advancement, the 2:1 applies.

Cool, confusing but cool.
So I could just take positive quality and then pay them off with karma at karma stage 1:1 and have no negative quality?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

yeah if you take X worth of positive qualities and no negative qualities, then you simply have 50-X karma available for skills/attributes/nuyen.

[SavarWallk]

yeah if you take X worth of positive qualities and no negative qualities, then you simply have 50-X karma available for skills/attributes/nuyen.

Thank you,  it was the cost ratios that was confusing me then.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

yeah if you take X worth of positive qualities and no negative qualities, then you simply have 50-X karma available for skills/attributes/nuyen.

Thank you,  it was the cost ratios that was confusing me then.

yeah AFTER you finish character generation and you want to go back and buy more positive qualities, THEN they cost 2x the karma of the listed price