[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

A chameleon suit can literally look like anything.  That's the point.  It can't have visible sensors or plates or whatever, because then it's not really doing its stealth thing.

So presuming out walking around you've got some kind of graphix on it, it will look like any other set of Sixth World Electrochomatic clothing.  Sure the ex-Navy Seal with a bunch of perception might spot it, but possibly not even then.  I'd let a pat down give the searcher a shot.  And obviously when you go Predator mode it's obvious. 

I mean, if your invisibility suit is flashing a giant AR Icon "HEY I'M AN ILLEGAL INVISIBILITY SUIT"  you should do something about that.  Otherwise, it looks like 75 Nuyen Electrochomatic Clothing that all the kids are wearing.

This is how it should be at least. I think it should pretty much work like a tech version of the mask spell with some limits on the visual bulk of the worn clothing.

Well, not to throw a bag of angry bees into the thread... but arguably invisibility DOES involve the equivalent of an AR broadcast to everyone saying "magic is afoot!"

See the noticing magic rules on pg. 129.  There's no requirement that the potential "Noticer of Magic being Afoot" has to be a magician themself.


But... with regards to being on-topic:

1) a chameleon suit doesn't say it can do everything that electrochromatic clothing does. So, I'm not sympathetic to interpretations that its fluff describing (admittedly) similar capabilities equates to IDENTICAL capabilities.

2) A chameleon suit DOES broadcast "HEY I'M AN ILLEGAL INVISIBILITY SUIT" to anyone who bothers to make a Matrix Perception test.  You could run wireless and avoid that problem, but then you'd lose the sweet +2DR bonus.  Or, if you are (or have on your team) a decker, you might try running it silent and trust the hacker can KEEP it from broadcasting to security forces that someone wearing an illegal sneak suit is waltzing around their premises.

[Michael Chandra]

(There are ways to notice magic, but magic's not at the level of an AR broadcast to mundanes. It mentions ways you can figure out magic's afoot, not a roll that lets you instant spot things.)

Not sure how you'd be able to notice that it's a Chameleon Suit just by seeing someone has wireless clothing. They'd have to Matrix Perceive the Icon with (I think) at least 2 net hits to identify what the suit actually is, rather than just 'B-boy's wicked clothing'.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Well, if someone has reason to do a matrix perception on you while interacting with you, you're presumably within 100 meters.  That means:

1) unless your suit is running silent, it's automatically spotted
2) per the rules for matrix perception (pgs 182-183) a single net hit (so, a single hit if you're not running silent) gives you what the device is called.  Seeing that someone trying to talk their way past while wearing something called a "Chameleon Suit" will probably be notable to NPCs like security guards, gate sentries, and etc.
3) So let's say you import the Wrapper cyberprogram from 5e, or otherwise allow the PC to make their illegal gear broadcast a name that sounds legal.  Ok, now it just takes more hits than 1 for the NPC to realize your "totally innocuous can of Dragon piss" is in fact an illegal "Chameleon Suit".  How many hits exactly is total GM discretion... but again if you're not running your suit silently then every hit is a net hit.

[Michael Chandra]

Doesn't have to call itself Chameleon Suit, you could give it any kind of innocuous name, e.g. 'Jumper Suit'. As for your claim that the test is unopposed if you're not running silent, I disagree. 'to analyze one particular icon or search for another icon', is on p178. That is explained as an opposed test, doesn't require running silent to be opposed. p183 also notes 'can also be used to attempt to spot any icons in the vicinity that are running silent', after explaining how a normal Matrix Perception test works. So it's not 'unopposed unless silent', it's 'spotted automatically but still opposed test to see if they can figure out any info, when not running silent'.

Icons also don't indicate what they are on sight, so they'd have to try to Perceive every icon you have. If you have your suit on and wireless while normally walking around, they'd have to try to go through all your icons to figure out what you're wearing, scoring 2+ net hits to realise. Since even a Spider requires 1.5s per Perception test, you'll need to be in a low-traffic area for Matrix Perception to give them a shot to spot you're wearing one.

Of course usually you'll be sneaking when you got this puppy active, or in combat, so it's not as if it matters if normal guards realize the suit is wireless: You'd want to be using it to sneak around, meaning you do not want any AR activity to indicate you're there. So you're running silent or sneaking through an area hoping they don't realize there's too many icons.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

yeah, that chart didn't survive from 5e to 6we, so yes when you add in the context of the text on pg 178 it seems like "analyzing one particular icon" probably should be opposed, regardless of whether you're running silent or not.

Still, doesn't change a whole lot unless you are, or have your suit slaved to a hacker.  Assuming you even CAN change the legit name to something phoney baloney, then 2+ net hits will see past that.  The exact number is deliberately flexible and relegated to GM discretion.

[Michael Chandra]

True, but then question 1 is, why are they checking out every AR icon, and question 2 is, why is your chameleon suit wireless when you're not sneaking around. Also 2+ hits is tough against a high-willpower char.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

1) Maybe it's your job to check out people as they enter the facility you're guarding.

2) probably shouldn't be, that's the point I'm making

also) agreed.  Your usual doorguard SHOULDN'T be having super dice pools, but you never know.

[Michael Chandra]

Underwear, shoes, clothing, commlink, glasses, armored vest: That's already near-20s per person. It'd require 1 minute per 3 people. Yeah, that works in a low-traffic area, but not in a high-traffic area. But yeah, forcing players to sit through a Matrix Perception check of all their gear (+chemsniffer and such) would definitely be a nice security feature.

[Hobbes]

Checking the AR tag of someones T-Shirt is a little far fetched for your typical security.  Political Rally?  Maybe.  Zero Zone?  Of course they are.  Building with dozens or even hundreds of employees coming and going daily?  No.

Complacency and Convenience are Securities arch nemesis. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Checking the AR tag of someones T-Shirt is a little far fetched for your typical security.  Political Rally?  Maybe.  Zero Zone?  Of course they are.  Building with dozens or even hundreds of employees coming and going daily?  No.

Complacency and Convenience are Securities arch nemesis.

It depends.  Presumably we're going to have Agents at some point. Loading them in a device in your secured facility and having them just scan the airwaves 24/7 for a laundry list of items likely to be employed by criminals is a pretty effective security measure.  Even if "chameleon suits" are only looked for once every minute, that's not giving you much time before you're sussed out unless you're running wireless.

[Hobbes]

That would be a lot of Agents tasked to a long shot for a Mega.  That's terrible ROI for a very useful business asset.

And a crapton of false alarms I'd be willing to bet.  You'd need a security specialist sorting through all the Alerts the Agents created.  Because your list isn't going to just be "Chameleon Suits".  It's going to look something like the TSA lists by the time you're done.  You'll catch all kinds of false positives and all kinds of stupid people, and very few Shadowrunners. 

Just sayin.  Spamming matrix searches is a low probability but a lot of resources.

[Xenon]

In this edition there don't seem to be any magic 100 meter range where you suddenly need to take a perception test in order to notice your target. It seem as if matrix icons are immediately obvious, no matter the range.

Running silent in this edition does not seem to be on device level (like it was in SR5). To run silent in this edition you turn your commlink or cyberdeck to silent running. This turn your whole personal area network running silent. Spotting the whole silent running network seem to just be one single opposed test.

[Hobbes]

In this edition there don't seem to be any magic 100 meter range where you suddenly need to take a perception test in order to notice your target. It seem as if matrix icons are immediately obvious, no matter the range.

Running silent in this edition does not seem to be on device level (like it was in SR5). To run silent in this edition you turn your commlink or cyberdeck to silent running. This turn your whole personal area network running silent. Spotting the whole silent running network seem to just be one single opposed test.

That is my reading as well.

[Leith]

Security protecting property is not going to be concerned with what your wearing. If your suit isn't on no one cares. They'll look for anomalous matrix icons sure, so if your sneaking its a way to catch you. In high traffic areas this is likely to be very difficult, even if automated, for lots of reasons. Is it suspicious to be wearing a chameleon suit? Sure. But if my contract says keep out unauthorized persons and the chamo suit wearer is authorized, not my problem.

[BeCareful]

So, from what I'm getting, nobody bothers to Matrix Perceive everyone's graphic tees becuase that'd be generally boring to do.
From that, you could just have your chameleon suit Wireless OFF while the receptionist takes a look at you, then turn it ON after ditching your trenchcoat in the bathroom or something.
Then, as long as you don't do anything too suspicious, nobody will have a good reason to start looking for icons of surreptitious garments.

But if someone sees a non-automatic door open by itself, or a hovering beaker crash against the floor, they'll probably want to make Matrix Perception or feel for the presence of magic with their arm hairs or something.