[Brunnus]

Can a Vampire learns a new critters power? If yes, how much karma will be spent this way?

[Bruce]

I would say that a Vampire cannot learn any Critter powers other than those provided on the Template.  If they want more power, they need to take the Magician Quality and learn spells.

I also would not let a vampire (if someone wanted to run one) get away with anything except fresh blood.  What they're really feeding on is the Essence; the blood is merely a medium of transfer.  Which also disallows high-tech cures; vampires lose Essence and can only replace it by taking it from others.

Vampirism is supposed to be a curse, not a set of cool powers you pay points for.  You get some powers, yes; but in general, you pay far more than what those powers are truly worth.  Or at least you should.

[JustADude]

I also would not let a vampire (if someone wanted to run one) get away with anything except fresh blood.  What they're really feeding on is the Essence; the blood is merely a medium of transfer.  Which also disallows high-tech cures; vampires lose Essence and can only replace it by taking it from others.

Vampirism is supposed to be a curse, not a set of cool powers you pay points for.  You get some powers, yes; but in general, you pay far more than what those powers are truly worth.  Or at least you should.

The dietary requirement is listed separately from the Essence requirement. Personally, I'd say that they need just plain ol' blood to keep from physically starving to death far more often than they need Essence, just due to nutritional considerations. "Bagged" blood would serve for the former purpose but, of course, do nothing for the latter.

Also, Vampirisim isn't a CURSE, it's a a VIRUS. It has nothing to do with the Wrath of God or Eternal Evil or any of that drek. If someone manages to turn it around so it works in their favor, more power to 'em.

[Critias]

Also, Vampirisim isn't a CURSE, it's a a VIRUS. It has nothing to do with the Wrath of God or Eternal Evil or any of that drek. If someone manages to turn it around so it works in their favor, more power to 'em.

That...comes down to your interpretation of the rules and fluff.  I've often taken the pseudo-scientific "HMVV" stuff with a grain of salt -- because trying to categorize and make sense of things beyond our ken is what humans do -- personally.  That we've chosen to call it a disease shouldn't necessarily take all the flavor and mystery out of it.  If a given player and GM wants it to just be a clinical disease that doesn't change your mindset at all, they're welcome to do so.  If others would prefer to interpret as us desperately slapping medical labels onto a fundamentally magical (and unpredictable) process...well...I think that's a valid reading of the source material, too.

What works for one campaign might not work for another, but that doesn't mean either one's "doing it wrong" or anything.

[JustADude]

That...comes down to your interpretation of the rules and fluff.

The fact that disease-resistance Bioware DOES help against it, per RAW, is a pretty explicit indication that the label "Metagenetic Virus"... which, really, is just the Science Talk way of saying "Magical Virus"... is pretty accurate.

Both the rules for how it spreads and a Prima Facie reading^* of the fluff both strongly support the idea that, according to "baseline" canon, it is a virus. If someone wants to go and declare that HMHVV is bogus for their game, though, more power to 'em. Their game, their call and all that.

^*That is to say, one without the assumption of a potentially flawed narration... aka, without that "grain of salt".

[Brunnus]

In our campaign, to be a vampire is a great problem, but not a curse. Its a bad thing but with some interesting consequences. Its a player option, so it cant be totally useless.

But one of our discussions is if a vampire ( or another type of PC critter ) can learn others powers. Something like discover others possibilities without to be forced to take a awakened quality (magician or something like that ). I confess I'm totally lost. Like a GM i think any critter can evolve in some fashion but i need more opinions. At first, I was wondering if 10 karma points will be enough but im afraid that this option ( learn powers ) is completely absurd. None of the books help me in my search for answers.

Thanks for any help

[JustADude]

But one of our discussions is if a vampire ( or another type of PC critter ) can learn others powers. ... At first, I was wondering if 10 karma points will be enough but I'm afraid that this option ( learn powers ) is completely absurd. None of the books help me in my search for answers.

I'd really say "no" if I were in your shoes.

The Critter Powers are mostly there for defining things about a particular (sub-)species that are radically different than a baseline human in ways that can't be expressed merely with adjusting stat caps. Having a Vampire learn other powers would be like having a Frog suddenly learn to fly.

That said, if you want to go through with it, I'd suggest assigning the Karma price on a Power by Power basis... and probably make him have to "eat" someone/something that already has that power, on top of the Karma.

[Brunnus]

But one of our discussions is if a vampire ( or another type of PC critter ) can learn others powers. ... At first, I was wondering if 10 karma points will be enough but I'm afraid that this option ( learn powers ) is completely absurd. None of the books help me in my search for answers.

I'd really say "no" if I were in your shoes.

The Critter Powers are mostly there for defining things about a particular (sub-)species that are radically different than a baseline human in ways that can't be expressed merely with adjusting stat caps. Having a Vampire learn other powers would be like having a Frog suddenly learn to fly.

That said, if you want to go through with it, I'd suggest assigning the Karma price on a Power by Power basis... and probably make him have to "eat" someone/something that already has that power, on top of the Karma.

Thanks a lot. The "eat option" is very atractive, but the "no option" is what the rules do

[JustADude]

Thanks a lot. The "eat option" is very attractive, but the "no option" is what the rules do

Oh, also, if you want to go that route (and I can't say it wouldn't be cool, but the pricing would be the devil to keep balanced!) I'd probably either limit it to 'non-structural' Critter Powers or make it so that the PC mutates visibly after gaining a power that has physical impact.

[Brunnus]

Thanks a lot. The "eat option" is very attractive, but the "no option" is what the rules do

Oh, also, if you want to go that route (and I can't say it wouldn't be cool, but the pricing would be the devil to keep balanced!) I'd probably either limit it to 'non-structural' Critter Powers or make it so that the PC mutates visibly after gaining a power that has physical impact.

Its a incredible way to evolve vampires. I can create a list of valid powers to prevent unballanced options. Thanks dude! This will work perfectly!!!   

[All4BigGuns]

In our campaign, to be a vampire is a great problem, but not a curse. Its a bad thing but with some interesting consequences. Its a player option, so it cant be totally useless.

Infected (other than Ghoul) is pretty much the only thing I ban outright from a game I run, but that's something I hold to from SR3 when the rules themselves pretty much straight up said that Ghouls are the only PC-playable Infected type.

[Zilfer]

In our campaign, to be a vampire is a great problem, but not a curse. Its a bad thing but with some interesting consequences. Its a player option, so it cant be totally useless.

Infected (other than Ghoul) is pretty much the only thing I ban outright from a game I run, but that's something I hold to from SR3 when the rules themselves pretty much straight up said that Ghouls are the only PC-playable Infected type.

>.> you might want to take a look at what happens when you do a Karma Ghoul build.... obviously metatypes don't cost any Karma so for the price of the quality that turns you into a Ghoul you get like.... 9 body, and 7 str? Something like that.... rediculous! xD My friend who's going to make a character likes to make the joke.

(eating something out of a bag)

Shadowrunner1: what are you eating?
Him: Butterfingers. (Grins evily)
Shadowrunner1: o.O'

[Starmage21]

In our campaign, to be a vampire is a great problem, but not a curse. Its a bad thing but with some interesting consequences. Its a player option, so it cant be totally useless.

Infected (other than Ghoul) is pretty much the only thing I ban outright from a game I run, but that's something I hold to from SR3 when the rules themselves pretty much straight up said that Ghouls are the only PC-playable Infected type.

You should quit holding on to this old stereotype. The infected have their own problems, sure, but theyre not broken.

[Red]

I can remember Bull posting some house rules for PC vamps that made them a lot like adepts, basically initiating their vampirism to gain power points towards new abilities (upgrading Regen, taking Mist Form, Thermo vision), but also adding some new ones (Claws, etc). It worked fairly well for 3rd ed. This was years and YEARS ago, mind you.

If you want a variant Vampire, remember that Infection often activates recessive genes, meaning sleeper Mages and Changeling traits may manifest at the time of Infection. Gaining new powers after that seems... risky to me. You'd start to have a Legacy of Kain kind of thing, or Diablerie from Vampire: The Masquerade. It's a fun notion, and if you want to house rule it, go for it, but I'd say that's definitely outside the existing canon. After all, it would mean Martin deVries should have the Fear ability of a Banshee, for example.

If you want a rules-worthy compromise, you could just have them specify spells or adept powers that match the legend they are going for. For something that is house-ruled, perhaps gain new powers akin to how a Free Spirit might. You might devote power points/Magic ranks towards new abilities instead, or create a new attribute to reflect Infection and limit available powers to those you deem appropriate.

For what it's worth, I've played a vampire for years, and have had several in and out of groups I've played with and run, along with shapeshifters and more. If you really play it out, and have a GM who understands how to play to the strengths and weaknesses of everyone in the group, you'll have no problems at all. Point in fact: The Mage Vampire of the group rarely pulls moves so dramatically bad@$$ as the Street Sam/Rigger, nor gets so many kills as the Weapons Specialist. It's all about players. As said above, if you trust the player, you can likely trust them with any character and rest easy they will help you tell an amazing story. If you don't trust them with the responsibility, don't allow it.

[Bruce]

I was using curse in the more generic 'it's not a fun thing to have' sense rather than the 'you're doomed' sense.

Yes, vampIrism (in shadowrun) is caused by a virus.  It turns you into a being that has to feed on living, sapient beings to survive.  (Even ghouls don't have it THAT bad.)  This should not be an uber-cool experience.  Yes, they are playable (although I've never had a player who wanted to play one).  Yes, they get interesting, useful abilities.  But there's more to them than a collection of points, pluses and minuses (or at least there should be, imho).

If a vampire wants to drink blood not connected to a living being with Essence, I'd have no problem; and it's a valid point that perhaps vampires require physical sustenance as well as Essence to survive.

As a previous poster noted, the power developed by Vampires are inherent in the virus; in order to have different powers, one would need to be infected by a variant of that virus.  This is certainly possible; but I don't think that the disease would allow changes after the fact.