[BSOD]

On another note, if you do change things keep it small, or let the players know. Nothing worse than having your character act one way, then finding out the setting you read, doesn't quite match up with the one the GM is running. And now your about to get right royally frakked.

[RareBreed]

That's kind of exactly what I mean.  I actually don't believe it's "your" game world...I believe it's "our" game world.  And the definition of "our" can be confined to your local group or it could encompass what the majority of shadowrun players agree on (ie the canonical setting).  Figuring out what the definition of "our" means is important when you think about tweaking the rules or setting in any form.

Like I said, just a pity that officially, it would appear that AI can't be awakened.  Though I did catch a potential loophole

For those who aren't against breaking the official setting, the Runner's Companion rule only says that Metasapients can't be awakened.  It says nothing about the other kinds of AI types.  It also only mentions AI as part of the matrix gestalt.  There's still room for androids, or other AI whose "host" is not the gestalt matrix.  In other words, an embodied or otherwise reified AI. 

For example, an android with a sophisticated enough processor "device" might be able to host an AI (for example, a quantum computer, which surprisingly, I have found no mention of).  This would also neatly side-step some thorny issues, like magic requiring line of sight.  I think the spirit of the law (no pun intended) is that the sight must be intrinsic or innate to the magician.  This is backed up by the fact that a mage who pays for cybereyes or biomods with essence is still allowed to use magic.  Because he paid essence for it, the artificial vision is now an intrinsic part of him.

An android's senses, his "life" would be localized.  Therefore, you can have an intrinsic or innate aspect to the AI, including physical attributes.

[StarManta]

There are two approaches conceptually: the hardware is magical, or the software is magical. The software approach is much more implausible and unbalancing to the game IMHO.

I would suggest reading the Manatech section of Arsenal (p.64) for inspiration on ways that technology and Magic can interact. For example, an AI that lives in a commlink that has been experimentally merged with some dual natured creature's brain cells might have some control over Magic. There are also rules in Running Wild for biodrones, which could totally be awakened and controlled by an AI.

As for the software approach, an Awakened AI could, for example, dig into the heart of a corp's network, then cast a spell from one of its computers after inside, bypassing all of the corp's astral security.

[Charybdis]

That's kind of exactly what I mean.  I actually don't believe it's "your" game world...I believe it's "our" game world.  And the definition of "our" can be confined to your local group or it could encompass what the majority of shadowrun players agree on (ie the canonical setting).  Figuring out what the definition of "our" means is important when you think about tweaking the rules or setting in any form.

No, really, it's 'Your' world

If you want a Shadowrun world where aliens have invaded from Pluto, muppets spontaneously developed sentience and the SURGE from Halley's Comet turned the oceans to vanilla custard, this is your right as GM.

And if the Players think this is awesome, it could have an amazing amount of fun and potential.
If they don't think it's awesome, you may run out of players and your campaign will fall apart, but that's part of the balancing act that is the role of GM   Changing just enough to make it fun for everybody.

The SR4 series of sourcebooks is not a Library of Law books. The PC's may look for ways to bend the suggested rules and regulations, but the GM is the final arbiter, and Rule Zero applies.
- If the GM decides bullets magically don't work anymore, then that's what happens.
- If the GM decides that Awakened metasapients/androids are possible, then that's what happens.

You will find that many GM's (myself included) will incorporate rule-breaking in order to fund a plot point.
- Yes, you rolled 12 successes with your Assault Cannon, but the seemingly thin pane of glass holds true and the NPC-Villain gets away
- Yes, Dragons normally get the Magician quality. This one actually has the Mystic Adept quality...so be afraid....
- Indeed, the Shedim inhabiting your dead wife just passed through your magical wards.... you don't know how.
and way back when, someone asked 'Hey, what if Shadowrun programs became sapient?' and thus AI's were born and Deus/Arcology went a bit loopy....

So, if breaking the mechanics will enhance the plot of your game (with an Awakened AI), then just do it
- You don't need permission from a forum
- You don't need to find a loophole in the rulebook
- Just.Do.It.

[Trenchknife]

- Just.Do.It.

<KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK>

"Who do you think that is?"

"My guess...a Nike Hit Sqaud."

[Charybdis]

- Just.Do.It.

<KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK>

"Who do you think that is?"

"My guess...a Nike Hit Sqaud."

Bring it

What are they going to do? Beat me to death with their ultra-shock-reducing footpads?

[RareBreed]

Well we just have different beliefs on it being "my" game world

I respect that there may be players who don't like the fact that I have aliens invading from Uranus   To disregard their opinion or philosophy isn't something I'm willing to do.  OTOH, if all the players in the group are cool with it then it's all good.

But to say that you can change the rules and setting willy nilly without giving respect to player's opinion is in my opinion playing God.   Is it my "right" as a GM?  Sure, just as it's a "right" for players to not want to play your game   After all, many players bought Shadowrun books because they want THAT world.

[Charybdis]

Well we just have different beliefs on it being "my" game world

I respect that there may be players who don't like the fact that I have aliens invading from Uranus   To disregard their opinion or philosophy isn't something I'm willing to do.  OTOH, if all the players in the group are cool with it then it's all good.

But to say that you can change the rules and setting willy nilly without giving respect to player's opinion is in my opinion playing God.   Is it my "right" as a GM?  Sure, just as it's a "right" for players to not want to play your game   After all, many players bought Shadowrun books because they want THAT world.

All part of the balancing act

But if players want just 'THAT world' then you're actually limited to just what's in the books.
The books have no Awakened AI's, rendering this entire discussion invalid 

If you want to continue ad absurdum, then yes, the GM is indeed playing God, every session at every table.
 - How many SWAT members attack the team?
 - Do they have APDS?
 - And a Tank?
 - With a Rigger?
 - Who's an AI and also a Gunnery guru?
 - And has a spare nuke with Itchy trigger finger?

These are questions that come from the imagination and creativity of the GM.
 - You can be a laid-back, easy-going god and only give them scenarios the PC's can handle.
 - You can be a monstrous, chaotic and vindictive god, punishing the players at every turn and using metagaming pizza-shortages to inflict in-Game pain.
 - You can be an impartial, fair and encouraging god who impartially rules on an defined set of mechanics, giving challenging but never insurmountable scenarios for PC's to be challenged by.

All of the above are valid. And here's the rub.
All of the above can be ENJOYABLE

It depends on your group. I've had a group that were ultra-strict on schedules, time-per-PC-per-turn, and in-game expected to be hunted down and killed at every turn in an incredibly dark Shadowrun campaign. And they LOVED it. As GM, I was always worried I was being too harsh, but they lapped it up like a classic Samurai movie, with PC sacrifice (holding the line), torn to death by dogs, and even ritual Seppuku just three examples of how some of the PC's kicked the bucket in this MEAT-GRINDER campaign. And out of character, they expected combat to be snappy, and if anyone took more than 10-SECONDS to determine a course of action, they forfeited their Initiative Pass. Was intense....

So, yes, it's your world. You can change it as you wish. And it's up to you how 'happy' you keep your players in doing so.
And yes, there have been silly campaigns where the oceans turned to custard. Ahh, the early teenage years where aliens from Uranus was the highest form of humour....

[JoeNapalm]

Well said, Char.

As GM, it is absolutely your world. Even if you choose to run it 100% RAW, it's still yours. (Heck, it is likely fairly unique, as most GMs never run any system straight out of the box, so to speak.)

That said, you should have a consistant world. Suspension of disbelief is important in any story. Spell-chucking Trolls are fine, because they are consistent with the setting. The fact that an Awakened AI is NOT consistent with the setting isn't a show stopper - you simply need to address the apparent paradox.

For instance, if you decide that, in your world, Magic and Matrix are not incompatible, the Magic-savy in your group need to be aware of this. If they still ARE diametrically opposed, and the Awakened AI is an anomaly, then either A) have a reason such a thing could exist (such as something akin to a Technospirit from another dimension possessing a supercomputer, some kind of bizarre technological SURGE-like event, etc) or, B) acknowledge that it shouldn't be possible, and yet it appears to be.

The beauty of option B is that your players, if you're running a solid, consistent game, will chase their tails for ages trying to figure out why...even suggesting plausible reasons you'd never come up with - assuming that you actually know the reason.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Reaver]

To be honest, I don't think anything canon stands up to the first taste of PCs as soon as the players have there say/do, most things get skewed quickly :p In my game we ran "ghost cartels", but the players decided to shoot Uribe in the face, KO Riveros and sell her off to a Corp back in the UCAS!! Not exactly a canon ending to tempo..... But a great game none the less!!

[beowulf_of_wa]

various groups i have run with

A: turned DNA/DOA into a TPK without even getting to the lab.
B: has a persistent world of all palladiums various games in one messed up rifts based place.
C: killed the big bad the second time they saw him, 1/4 of the way thru the mission

back to the original question: assuming you choose to allow it, a spirit possessing a technomancer would be one of the better possibilities, or a e-ghost pulling an agent smith on a mage/adept.  either way, it has to be a magic/resonance capable physical body.

both the matrix and the astral have "exclusive" paths of access from the physical world, and beyond them are the metaplanes and deep resonance. a truly awakened AI (or resonant spirit) would be able to skip the phys world totally, and assuming initiation have access to both higher levels.

like the idea, don't want it inn my game world.

[Sichr]

I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?

[Charybdis]

I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?

A) it's the ultimate conflict of Technology vs Magic. These things don't work well together at teh best of times, so blending them is (at this point) not possible
B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....

[Sichr]

I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?

A) it's the ultimate conflict of Technology vs Magic. These things don't work well together at teh best of times, so blending them is (at this point) not possible
B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....

A: I wasnt talking about Magic, but Resonance 
B: Exactly...AI created Technomancers= AI created Resonance beings, but RAW AI cannot be resonnance being. Thats what confusing me...

[beowulf_of_wa]

B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....

i disagree, otaku/TM are not technological, they access tech without using any, at best they could be called psychic, but the way the rules are written, resonance is equivalent to being awakened. consider it a rare opportunity with mutually exclusive options.

but SR6 will have black ice/horrors available as PC.