[Dr. Meatgrinder]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

I disagree - I don't think it, as written, lets you get around the limitation of needing to spend an action readying. Granted, some GMs might rule it does, so I guess check with whoever's running. If they let you use Quickdraw to fire 2 arrows a pass, it's much more feasible to be an archer and it's just moderately suboptimal instead of really bad.

Take the 'Martial Arts' quality, Krav Maga has an option to ready a weapon as a free action.  not quite 2 arrows an IP, but it increases your outbound arrows by 50%.

Except if his GM doesn't allow the Quick Draw adept power to work, neither will the Krav Maga ability, since both say "weapon."

That being said, the bow specifically uses the "Ready Weapon" action (SR4A, 147 and 315).  Also, the Quick Draw adept power does indicate that "drawing and readying occur in the action used for the Attack Test" (SM, 179).

Or carry two bows, fire the first, drop it as a Free Action, then Quick Draw and fire the second, since (as written) you only have to worry about "Reloading" because Quick Draw allows you to draw, ready, and fire in the same action.

Or, really, such an adept could Quick Draw and throw two javelins (Arsenal, 19) per IP.

[Dr. Meatgrinder]

I've wondering about that actually, but I'm not sure that martial arts bonus applies to arrows persay.  And if it does apply to all weapons it's additional bonus of "Take aim" is now a free action can be a nasty bonus.

Yes, it is.  But neither the crunch of Krav Maga nor the Take Aim action forbid its use with bow (or thrown weapons or rifles, for that matter).  Given the fluff, though, it would make sense if the Krav Maga rules were limited to pistols.

[UmaroVI]

Really, I think that while the way its written doesn't say you can use bows, as Fringe pointed out you can chain-quickdraw bows. Were I GMing, I would allow Quick Draw roll to fire arrows as a simple action. Were I making a character, I'd ask the GM first.

[Seraph]

a troll archer would be a cool one, but the elf could be more playable i think. I discussed this type of char with my GM and we both agreed that an elf would suffice just fine. The elf i would go for high charisma too, and dual as face. Go for high agility(8-10) and strength around 5-6, this with your bow and a sword will be very deadly. The bow is a fun weapon and easy to deal good damage with as long as the GM don´t put up tank trolls all the time.
Personally i think a char with ware will be more fun then the adept, but the adept will be tough after some karma gain.

All the crap talk about not being good enough is like i said, just crap. Like some said, go for the char you wanna play! The stealthy Face/archer can be totally awesome, if you create it, please let us(me) know how it goes.

Good luck!

[Pyromaster13]

I was mainly thinking of going a bio-adept taking an early muscle augment and toner, along with starting attributes of 5 agility and 4 strength that will top off at 9 agility (maximum augment rating for humans) and 8 strength (which umaro kindly pointed out is the new cap for bow dmg).  Then keep Magic low, maybe around 3 so I can get quick draw and whatever may help in secondary situatations.

But the way he's built toward combat also makes him reaction and intuit heavy for initiative and defense, but his chemistry skill also makes him logic heavy, which can potentially make him a hacker secondary.

The way I see the attributes going is like this:
Body:4
Agility:5(9)
Reaction:5
Strength:4(
Charisma:1
Intuition:3
Logic:5
Willpower:1

Since I'm thinking of going the "Bad Rep" route, I probably won't intend on negotiating often, and probably opt to have a decent intimidation skill (which coupled with noteriety and potential modifiers isn't a bad dice pool).

As for the low willpower, I'm considering getting an early pain editor, which allows him to ignore stun damage modifiers and prevents passing out, which will essentially just make his stun track as a damage buffer for his physical track and give me one less thing to micromanage.

Any thoughts on these specific details?

[UmaroVI]

The maximum bonus street cred+notoriety can give you is capped by your Charisma. So with 1 charisma, that's at most +1.

[The Big Peat]

As for the low willpower, I'm considering getting an early pain editor, which allows him to ignore stun damage modifiers and prevents passing out, which will essentially just make his stun track as a damage buffer for his physical track and give me one less thing to micromanage.

I hope you either plan on standing next to a Mage with Counterspell - Off the Charts, or enjoy murdering your team mates when the Control Actions come out. Also, if the various Fear powers get used, your character will spend a large amount of his life washing his underwear. And so on. Willpower 1 is basically bending over in front of your GM, dropping your trousers, and handing them a bottle of lube but assuring them its optional. If you enjoy that style of play, then by all means. Elsewise, for the love of god, get Willpower 3.

[baronspam]

As for the low willpower, I'm considering getting an early pain editor, which allows him to ignore stun damage modifiers and prevents passing out, which will essentially just make his stun track as a damage buffer for his physical track and give me one less thing to micromanage.

I hope you either plan on standing next to a Mage with Counterspell - Off the Charts, or enjoy murdering your team mates when the Control Actions come out. Also, if the various Fear powers get used, your character will spend a large amount of his life washing his underwear. And so on. Willpower 1 is basically bending over in front of your GM, dropping your trousers, and handing them a bottle of lube but assuring them its optional. If you enjoy that style of play, then by all means. Elsewise, for the love of god, get Willpower 3.

While TBP managed to make the point with a bit more poetry that I might have, his point is valid.  Willpower shows up in all kinds of resistance and defense tests.  You really want more than a 1.

[Critias]

That's...a lot of 1's, and both of 'em in some of my favorite stats.  I can't stand to have any, much less two of the danged things.  I don't know how some of you guys do this.

On a personality level, how do you role play someone with a Cha and Will of 1 apiece?  What personality traits do you give them?  Speech patterns?  What sort of connection with the other players? 

For those more concerned with mechanics, do you know just how totally railroaded you're going to get in any conversation where anyone, ever, busts out social dice against you?  Do you know what Composure Tests -- aka "keeping your shit together" -- are based on?

You're really, really, hamstringing your character with a statline like that, in my opinion.  Not just in terms of dice pools and mechanics, but in terms of character.

[Tsuzua]

Really the big problem with Willpower 1 is that it's GM aggro bait.  .66 of a success isn't really going to save you from a competent mage with control thoughts or the fear power. 

A hellhound rolls 6 dice for its fear power.  A willpower 3 guy will get feared 63% of the time.  The willpower 1 guy will be feared 82% of the time.  You can say the 2 points of willpower halves your chance of being feared or you can say it only matters about 1/5 of the time (i.e. much of the time 2 extra dice won't really help). 

Against a control thoughts cast by the Sample Combat Mage (who seems to show up all the time in published adventures), you are rolling 3 or 1 dice against 9 dice.  You will fail 93% of the time with 1 willpower and 81% of the time with 3 willpower.  Either way, you're controlled. 

Now let's give you counterspelling 4 (the value many starting mages will give).  Now it's 5 dice or 7 dice against 9.  The odds are now you'll fail 63% of the time with 1 willpower and  53% of the time with 3 willpower. 

Now what will really happen is that the GM will target you more with willpower attacks.  If mages target you twice as much as anyone else because the GM wants you to "pay" for having a 1 willpower, that's a big deal and a huge disadvantage.  Therefore, willpower >1 is more of an anti-GM aggro thing.

Composure tests are important though.  Though getting a combined willpower + charisma high enough to matter for most tests is hard unless you're a mage and/or a face.

[Weldûn]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

I disagree - I don't think it, as written, lets you get around the limitation of needing to spend an action readying. Granted, some GMs might rule it does, so I guess check with whoever's running. If they let you use Quickdraw to fire 2 arrows a pass, it's much more feasible to be an archer and it's just moderately suboptimal instead of really bad.

Take the 'Martial Arts' quality, Krav Maga has an option to ready a weapon as a free action.  not quite 2 arrows an IP, but it increases your outbound arrows by 50%.

It is two arrows each initiative pass. Why? Because the Iaijustu maneuver and the Quick Draw power both allow you to draw/ready and use a single weapon with a simple action. Rules as Written are as follows, with underlines for my own emphasis.

Iaijustu
A character with this maneuver may use the Quick Draw rules (p.137, SR4) to draw any weapon. not just pistols. The character may draw and use a single melee weapon, missile weapon, throwing weapon or firearm of Reach 1 or less with a Simple Action. If attacking with the weapon requires a Complex Action, he may still draw and attack with a Complex Action. He must succeed in an appropriate Weapon Skill + Reaction (3) Test to Quick Draw.

Quick Draw
Cost:.5
The adept may may use the Quick Draw rules (p.137, SR4) to draw any weapon. not just pistols. The adept may draw and use a single melee weapon, missile weapon, throwing weapon or firearm in one action, and need not spend two actions to draw and ready the weapon and then attack: drawing and readying the occur in the action used for the Attack Test. If attacking with a weapon that requires a Complex Action, the adept may still draw and attack in a single Action Phase. If attacking with a weapon that requires only a Simple Action to use, the adept may draw and make two attacks in a single Action Phase. The adept must succeed in an appropriate Weapon Skill + Reaction (2) Test to Quick Draw.

Ready Weapon
A character may ready a weapon by spending a Simple Action. The weapon may be a firearm, melee weapon, throwing weapon, ranged weapon, or mounted or vehicular weapon. Readying entails drawing a firearm from a holster, drawing or throwing or melee weapon from a sheath, picking up any kind of weapon, knocking an arrow in a bow, or generally preparing any kind of weapon for use. A weapon must be ready before it can be used.
A character can ready a number of small throwing weapons, such as throwing knives or shuriken, equal to one half his Agility (round down) per Ready Weapon action.

Due to the game's schitzo use of the term "draw" when it clearly means "ready", I find the adept route to be more reliable against thick-headed GMs. That, and it's got a lower threshold to succeed.

So what you end up with is a weapon that hits harder than a heavy pistol (although some people need to remember that it applies against ballistic armor, not impact) with superior ranges, that's a little fiddly when compared to the simplicity of a silenced pistol.

[Pyromaster13]

Well the inherent problem I ran into with the stats is the heavy requirements to get what I needed.

He needs high str for dmg
He needs high agility to hit properly
Decent reaction for defense
Decent Intuition for Initiative
At least a logic around 3 for chemistry

And I don't know why they have that cap on noteriety bonus, since if you've been slaughtering hundreds of people mercilessly and (at a charisma of 1) you're not very socially adept, and obviously off your rocker, somehow you're less intimidating than a regular person (or even elf at charisma 3) with an intimidate skill of 1.  I think thats something I'd negotiate with the GM if he brought that up with me. But I'm not going to say anything beyond this in a character creation post.

Logilistically, the simple solution is probably to bump up willpower to 2, then bump it in-game to 3 first thing just for stablity.  Probably taking that BP from Logic or something. 

I get your points on how important willpower is, but once one person tells me why it's a good idea to bump it up, I don't need to be told 2 more times from different people stating the same reasons, then be given statistics from a 3rd person.  I'd rather get the reasons not to once then some actually advice on how to fix the numbers instead.

[UmaroVI]

OK, let me see if I can help you on that front.

First, how sold are you on being a human? Is that a core part of your character concept, or are you metatype-indifferent?

Second, do you care about logic in general, or just being able to be good at Chemistry in particular?

[UmaroVI]

Incidentally, on the intimidation front: using a Custom Look bow can help you a little there, it's +2 to your Intimidate when you show it off (ie, threaten people with it).

[CanRay]

"Your pistol shoots through schools.  This bow shoots through bunkers.  And still kills the snowmoose on the other side.  I like snowmoose, good meat and hide."