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Character Skeletons

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Joush

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« Reply #60 on: <10-04-11/1832:34> »
Did you read the street sam skeleton, Preacher? While it could offer more detail as to why such options are chosen it makes a serious effort to explain things to a new player and leave them with lots of options for where to go from there without overwhelming them.

Honestly, I'd prefer something like these skeletons to the archetypes in the book. Rather then a fully built character, it simply aims to make sure that no matter what choices a new player makes in customization their character will still be effective at the role they picked. A new player can take a good skeleton and take it to a very different place then another player building on the exact same skeleton.

Preacher

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« Reply #61 on: <10-04-11/1956:20> »
And the funny think is, nobody has said your wrong about that ;D
Atleast notwhen talking about totally new players.
See, at least one person is.  It's not you, granted, but there is such a voice.

Did you read the street sam skeleton, Preacher? While it could offer more detail as to why such options are chosen it makes a serious effort to explain things to a new player and leave them with lots of options for where to go from there without overwhelming them.
I must have missed it.  I'll scan through the thread again after this to see if I can spot it, thanks for the heads up.  If it is as informative as you say, that would definitely be a welcome aid and something I'd be behind.

EDIT:  Yes, that was a really nice example of the kind of thing I was talking about.  Thanks again for pointing it out.

Quote
Honestly, I'd prefer something like these skeletons to the archetypes in the book. Rather then a fully built character, it simply aims to make sure that no matter what choices a new player makes in customization their character will still be effective at the role they picked. A new player can take a good skeleton and take it to a very different place then another player building on the exact same skeleton.
I don't care much for the default archetypes either.  Most of them seem to have been put together with an agenda to rationalize the focus the new designers wanted to take the game (ie, street level and only slightly above-average characters), and they're kind of crappy all around. 

I'm also saying that they can't do those things, I'm just unsure of why they need something like this to do those things.  People who are familiar with the game and the game system already know what the basics are, and those who aren't need more input than just what they 'have' to take.  Especially when the information offered doesn't include the actual basics (as per the Magician one I quoted earlier), but instead includes completely optional and questionable choices.  Not all magicians need Ritual Spellcasting nor the Levitate spell to function, for instance.  If you're going to do that, you should explain why those questionable options are included at the very least.

I think that's the brunt of my confusion, honestly.  I don't quite understand how exchanging one example that lacks any real assistance (basic archetypes in the main sourcebook) with another one (these blank stat blocks) is a true aid to anyone who genuinely needs the help.

And Kirk, if you could take a moment and stop assuming people are attacking you personally, perhaps you'd realize that I am trying to contribute.  Explaining the choices made with each 'skeleton' would be a much more useful tool than just throwing seemingly random numbers at a person.
« Last Edit: <10-04-11/2000:27> by Preacher »

Joush

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« Reply #62 on: <10-04-11/2037:28> »
It's useful feedback to say that we should do a better job of explaining for new players why something like Wired Reflexes and Muscle Toner are good choices. I'm sure we can all talk about this in a calm manner that improves what we were aiming for rather then a fight.

Shadowrun is a hard system to build a new character for. A casual reading of the book and a look at the example characters dose little to explain to you what you might want a cyberlimb for, or why any PC that will engage in combat routinely should have at least 2 IP, and certainly ignores the low cost options to enhance aural and visual senses.

The examples are acutely pretty awful. (I'm looking at you, stealth guy with 2 body and an armor jacket).

FastJack

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« Reply #63 on: <10-04-11/2224:26> »
I think we need to all step back and take a breather. There is a difference of opinion here and not much constructive criticism going on.

Phylos Fett

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« Reply #64 on: <10-05-11/0316:48> »
Actually, I think that along with the Skeletons, a good explanation of each component would be advantageous; as with anything, a new player could just take it as gospel, but for those with an interest, they could/would/should read it, and would have a better understanding of the concept when they come to building a character from scratch, tweaking a concept, or expanding on the Skeleton.

Also, maybe the options could be laid out as Character Paths - so, if you take the Street Samurai Skeleton (for example) have a few Character Paths (Melee, Ranged, Heavy Weapons, whatever) that the character can follow.

Finally, some full-builds as examples made using the Skeletons might also be advantageous.

Just my 0.02¥ worth...

Glyph

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« Reply #65 on: <10-05-11/2233:42> »
The skeletons are fairly simple.  Annotating them would make them more like tutorials.  But that could possibly be useful.  Here is an annotated version of the Face skeleton.

Face

Assumed meta: Human

Humans are the baseline.  Obviously, the best metatype for a face would be an Elf, since they get a bonus (and thus, a higher maximum) to their Charisma.

Positive Quality: First Impression (5 BP)

A cheap +2 dice pool bonus that applies in situations that are fairly common for a shadowrunner.  Also, the description of the quality is very evocative of what a face does.  This is a quality recommended for both crunch and fluff.

Softcap (usually 5) Charisma. (40 BP)

The primary Attribute used for social skills, as well as one of the component Attributes for Composure and Judge Intentions tests.

Willpower: 3. (20 BP)

Used to resist some social skills.  Not as important as Charisma, but it should be at least a 3.

Skills: Influence Group: 4 (40 BP)

Skill groups give a discount of useful skills, especially skill groups that have 4, rather than 3, skills - as the influence group does.  Skill groups mean you start out with less dice compared to having one of the skills at 6 plus a specialization.  But it is worth the hit in effectiveness because it is a dramatic savings on four skills that are ALL essential to a good face.  Also, faces have a lot of potential dice pool modifiers that they can use, so the skill group does not hinder you in having a high enough dice pool to be effective.

Intimidation: 2 (8 BP)

Less subtle, and usually used less often, but faces should still be able to do it when they have to.  Plus, they need at least a minimal intimidation skill in order to resist it, when it is used on them.

Total 113 BP.


Recommendations:
Bioware: Tailored Pheromones: 3 (9 BP)

It give you a +3 dice pool bonus to all social skills.

Willpower: 5 (20 more BP, total 40 BP)
raise Intimidation to 4 (8 more BP, total 16 BP)

This brings these two stats from the minimal level for a face, to a level where they are more on par with the rest of the face's abilities.

Positive Quality: Adept (5 BP)

This gives you access to adept abilities, which can add to a face's effectiveness (see below)

Starting Magic: 4, reduced to 3 by Bioware (30 BP)
Powers: Kinesics: 3, Commanding Voice, 1.25 PP remaining for other powers

Assuming that you get tailored pheromones, this is the minimal level of Magic to get kinesics at rating: 3 (adept powers are capped by Magic, so you need at least a 3 Magic to have 3 in kinesics).  Kinesics: 3 gives you a +3 to all social skills.

Commanding voice, which uses your high Attribute of Charisma and your leadership skill of 4 (from the Influence skill group), is a good way to contribute to a fight, or to resolve standoff situations such as someone pointing a gun at a hostage.  Also, the Bene Gesserit voice thing really fits the concept of a supernatural face.


Total 185 BP

Peripheral ability suggestions:
Perception: 2+

Noticing things is part of being a good face.  Although this is also an essential skill for nearly any character, period.

Data Search: 1+ with good commlink

Information gathering.

Disguise: 1+

Concealing your identity at meets with the Johnson, and blending in.  A face should be a social chameleon.

20+ points spent on contacts

Contacts can get you gear, or information, or provide important services (smuggling you out of the city, fixing up that bleeding wound, etc.).  Having a good spread of contacts is almost as important as having the Influence skill group.

note: for languages, take at 4+ rating.
When using social skills and a non-native tongue, your skill dice are capped by your rating in that language.  So make sure your language skills are high enough to not get penalized when you have to use them.

Phylos Fett

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« Reply #66 on: <10-05-11/2251:50> »
That's some nice work there, Glyph!

Mason

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« Reply #67 on: <10-06-11/0157:43> »
wall o' red tect made me think you were Red Canti for a minute...

Joush

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« Reply #68 on: <10-15-11/0345:52> »
Hacker Skeleton. Cost 324

An effort to create a basic hacker able to accompany a Shadowrun team in the flesh with modest cyberaugmentation to provide a boost to combat ability. Created using resources found in Shadowrun 4th Edition.


Attributes:

Strength +1 (2)
Agility +2 (3)
Body +2(3)
Reaction +2 (3)
Intuition +2 (3)
Logic +3 (4)
Willpower +3 (4)
Charisma +1 (2)

Total: 160

 You can and likely should spend 40 points more. Your Strength and Charisma are low, getting only 1  point so if you default on a linked skill you won't be forced to use an edge dice. If you want your hacker to be charismatic or physicality strong, you can bump those attributes up. For combat power, "soft capping" agility, body or reaction by increasing them to 1 below max can be a good idea. Increasing Intuition will give you better senses. Dwarf, Troll or Orc hackers will be tougher and stronger then human, while Elf hackers will be more agile and charismatic.

Special Attribute:

Edge +2 (4)

Total: 20

Edge is luck and can help get you out of danger. Any non-human metatype will have less edge then a human.

Skills:

Cracking Skill Group: 4 or  Hacking: 6, Electronic Warfare 2, Cybercombat 2
Electronics Skill Group: 3
Pistol: 3 or Longarms: 3 or Automatics: 3
Doge: 3
Perception: 3
Infiltration: 3

Total: 122

Taking Cracking as a skill group rather then breaking it up gives you a high general ability while instead taking the separate skills allows you to max out Hacking and if you may add specialties to increase your ability farther, at the cost of less flexibility.

The choice of what kind of firearm to be skilled in is left to the player to choose, with the following advice: Pistols are easy to conceal but aren't quite as powerful while longarms offer long range from sporting and sniper rifles and close combat via powerful shotguns. Automatics offer concealable options in Machine Pistols, as well as powerful and bulky assault rifles.

Doge allows a character to avoid attacks and can be very useful to survival in the sixth world.  Few characters can afford to operate without perception to spot danger and infiltration is vital to stay safely in the shadows and avoid attention or unnecessary fights. I'd suggest picking up at least one rank in Etiquette, and possibly the Influence skill group. Otherwise, you can increase your skill or skill groups to 4 to improve specialized ability

Qualities:

None are critical, but you may wish to take Codeslinger positive quality to give you +2 to a single matrix action. Hack on the Fly is a popular choice, but you could take Control Device if you intended to remote control drones and other systems often, or Matrix Attack if you plan to make heavy use of cybercombat.

Gear:

Wired Reflexes Rating 2

Fairlight Caliban upgraded to Response, Signal, System and Firewall 5 with Novatech Navi, Trodes, Satellite Link, AR Gloves, Sim Module modified for Hot Sim and Skinlink

Programs, all at rating 5.
Analyze, Armor, Attack, Biofeedback Filter, Browse, Command, Decrypt, Defuse, ECCM , Edit , Encrypt , Exploit , Medic, Reality Filter, Scan, Sniffer, Spoof, Stealth

Total: 22

Your wired reflexes increase Reaction, boosting your defensive abilities, while at the same time granting you more initiative passes. This allows you to keep up in a firefight and to hack via AR safely, without going into full VR. Useful in a fight when you don't want to go limp and lay on the ground.

Your comlink is a massive investment with a simple aim to get it's attributes and programs at 5. Your programs give you a broad set of options for approaching matrix problems. This character is built using resources in the core book so if you have Unwired you may find several programs and options you would like to use. You will certainly want to buy a weapon and armor before you go on a run, I'd suggest a chameleon suit to enhance your stealth ability while offering moderate defense. As always, you will want to pick up licenses and a fake SIN, as well as at least 1 month of a lifestyle, a medkit and possibly some stim slap patches.

For more augmentation, muscle toner could be good to increase in the flesh offensive power, an old school datajack for the decker look as well as using knowledge softs and mentally controlling your comlink, or cyber eyes/ ears. In any case, you certainly want some kind of visual and audio link, from cyber implants or glasses and earbuds.  You will likely want to pick up a maglock passkey and sequencer to make good use of your Hardware skill, allowing you to bypass physical security, as well as a Hardware tool kit.

Make sure to keep copies of those massively expensive programs backed up onto datachips hidden where you can get to them if you need them.
« Last Edit: <10-15-11/0449:28> by Joush »

Kat9

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« Reply #69 on: <11-12-11/2237:50> »
Got a skeleton for a drone rigger?

CanRay

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« Reply #70 on: <11-13-11/1543:02> »
Got a skeleton for a drone rigger?
Check with Ghoul Cab, I think they got a skeleton of every type.

...

Oh, you mean a character skeleton.  I'll, um, go away now.  :P
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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kirk

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« Reply #71 on: <11-13-11/2100:50> »
Got a skeleton for a drone rigger?
No, but I ought to pull this project from the back burner and make one. Or beg someone else to do it so I can post it (grin)

Joush

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« Reply #72 on: <11-13-11/2119:02> »
Drone Rigger Skeletal (Work in progress!)

Attributes

Reaction +2
Logic +3
Inutiton +1
Willpower +2
Charisma +1

80 BP spent here.

You will almost certainly want to increase your attributes a lot from these minimums. As a drone rigger you can often avoid being physically present in dangerous situations and thus get by with low physical attributes, but for safety you may wish to increase your Reaction and Agility to 2 or 3, while Body is vital both for the ability to wear armor and survive damage if you are attacked in person.  Logic is important for many of your skills, while other attributes govern skills that you would not want to be reduced to 0 dice if defaulting. Reaction is useful for survival and governs your Pilot skills.

Skills

Pilot Groundcraft 1
Pilot Aircraft 4
Pilot Walkers 1
Gunnery 4
Perception 4
Electronic Warfare 4
Electronics Skill Group 1
Mechanic Skill Group 1

88 spent here.

Pilot skills allow you to control your drones, with a clear preferring for versatile flying drones. Electronics and Mechanics are at very low points and you may wish to raise the skill groups. If you prefer different walker types (such as the Doberman) you may want to instead pick up Walker piloting. You currently have no skills related to personal combat, an may wish to pick up Automatics, Doge, or other personal combat skills.


Gear:

Comlink with Signal, Response, Firewall and System 5 loaded with Stealth, ECCM, Control and other programs at 5.  Copies of Autosofts and Pilot programs. Break the copywrite on them and load them on all

Cybernetic Control Rig.

I'll do more later.

Kat9

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« Reply #73 on: <11-15-11/1652:18> »
Thanks Joush, looking forward to the cyber and drone section! :)
« Last Edit: <11-22-11/1152:00> by Kat9 »