[Fruz]

Hi everyone

I am getting started with couple of friends on shadowrun 4th, and I'm playing a technomancer.
We've been playing one small scenario already and I'm still adjusting the character, and I have couple of questions about how to do it properly, and about some rules.
I noticed the "rules" section of the forum, but as some questions might be very basic, I though it'd be better to ask everything here.
One important point : I am not ( and neither my game master is ) going to try to have the best character ever and to optimize it like hell.
My technomancer is not only about staying in the car and being in the matrix and drones, I like having a little bit of a "face" to be able to get to a lot of places, and be at least a bit useful in the meat world.

First of all, here is my technomancer, I save you all the background part of it ( as it's our first shadowrun game, we were granted 10%points creations ) :

Race : Elf
Attributes :
--------------
  Body : 3
  Agility : 3
  Rea : 3
  Strength : 2
  Charisma : 6
  Intuition : 4
  Logic : 4
  Edge : 3
  Resonnance : 5
  Essence : 5.3

Qualities :
--------------
  Technomancer
  Toxin resist 1

Negativ qualities :
------------------------
  Addiction 2
  Intimate ennemy 2 ( ARES corporation )
  Lust ( 5 points )
  Trauma + amnesia ( 5 points )
  Exotic birds phobia ( 5 points )

Gear :
--------
  Morrisey Elan + sound suppressor
  Fichetti Tiffani needler
  Vest : business man vest with max rating, resists : fire1, freeze 1, non conductiv 2, chemicals 1

  Cyberware  ( part of the background ) :
    - arm ( delta ) : agi 5, con 3, strength 4, armor 3
        retractable blade, dart, contact taser, storing parts for drugs, etc ...
    - toxin extractor 1

Network :
------------
   street doc ( 2 loy  3 net )
   bio surgeon ( 3 loy 3 net )
   johnson  ( 1 loy  3 net )



Skills :
---------
   Blade 1 ( +2 retractable )
   Guns 1 ( +2 Hold-Out )
   Infiltration 1
   Perception 1
   dodge 1

Athletics group 1

Influence
   Con 1
   Etiquette 3
   Leadership 1
   Negociation 1

Cracking
   Cybercombat 1
   Electronic warfare 1
   Hacking 2

Electronics
  Hardware 2
  Computer 2
  Data search 2
  Software 3

Tasking
   Compiling 5
   Decompiling 1
   Registering 3


Complex Forms :
------------------------
   Spoof 4
   Stealth 4
   Exploit 4
   Armor 4
   Browse 3
   Edit 3
   Attack 3
   Decrypt 3

 

So now here are the questions :

- which complex form to have ? I read that analyze was useful and I don't have it, why is it so good ?

- I read things about boosting a smartgun with a Machine-sprite using a smartlink complex form :  how ?

- I took the morissey Elan for a weapon and I like the fact that it's a bit harder to detect, if I add a smartgun in it, can it still be like that ?

- Can I learn complex form and exceed the Logic*2 Maximum with karma ?

- If I get extra resonnance points thanks to submersion, do I have to pay the 6th point as a very expensive one still or like a normal point ?

- Should I try to get to 6 in Resonnance and then have 5 with the tests ?

- I read that choosing between charisma/intuition/logic/willpower for fading tests was possible, is that true ? I didn't find it anywhere in the core book and the unwired book.

- How do sprites exactly work ? If I create a rating 3 sprite with 2 tasks, will he just be able to run 2 different compatible programms with a rating of 3 ? can they use programms I don't know ?

- Is it a good option to buy registered sprites at the character creation ? what does it give since I can maybe register it myself ? extra rating on the sprite ?

- In a realistic scenario ( or almost realistic, we are still in 2072 ;p ), why is a technomancer with some attack and cybercombat capabilities bad ? ( And plz don't compare it to other player choosing hacker, it is not a mmorpg, I want to do role play with friends of mine and only that, and if I can be useful sometimes with crashing an icon, beatting a random hacker created by my gamemaster IG, it's sufficient )
     
- What do you still think of my character after having read all of this ?

NB : I'm not native english speaker as you may have realised it, plz be tolerant :p
NB2 : I just discovered the book "unwired" couple of hours ago ... man I still have that much to read
and Thank you for your help in advance

[RelentlessImp]

First, if you didn't buy Resonance to 6, then the essence loss from your implants is going to put your Resonance to 4. Any changes to your Essence directly affect your Resonance/Magic attribute by the same amount (rounded up). So even a -0.01 essence loss is going to drop your Resonance or Magic by 1 full point.

Second, Resonance should be 6 anyways, as it's going to directly interact with most actions you take in the Matrix. Or at least, that's my opinion; others more familiar with technomancers can probably give you better advice.

Also I believe if you get a Maximum Increase on your Resonance, you still have to buy up to it with Karma as normal.

[Black Sheep]

Alright, I'll try to be as helpful as I can here, keeping in mind that I have only just now made a single technomancer and I've only played one game using that character. I'll try to answer these questions as best I can.

- which complex form to have ? I read that analyze was useful and I don't have it, why is it so good ?

My Technomancer actually only has a Logic score of 3, so I didn't start with very many complex forms. Whatever I didn't have I just decided I would use Threading to get what I needed on the fly.

To answer the question about Analyze, it is used in Matrix Perception to gain information about an Icon or Node, depending on what sort of test you are using.

- I read things about boosting a smartgun with a Machine-sprite using a smartlink complex form :  how ?

This is accomplished using the Diagnostics power of a Machine Sprite, where you have it go into the gun's node and activate the ability. Depending on the roll, it can provide a teamwork bonus to your own roll that cannot exceed your skill rating. So, for example, if you have a Handguns of 3, it can provide an additional 3 dice provided the Sprite rolls enough hits.

- I took the morissey Elan for a weapon and I like the fact that it's a bit harder to detect, if I add a smartgun in it, can it still be like that ?

I don't recall anything that says taking a smartgun system on a gun makes it easier to detect, at least visually. If you're using it wirelessly, it means it does have a wireless node and might be detected that way.

- Can I learn complex form and exceed the Logic*2 Maximum with karma ?

Yes, that limit only applies during character creation.

- If I get extra resonnance points thanks to submersion, do I have to pay the 6th point as a very expensive one still or like a normal point ?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, as Submersion does not give you another point of Resonance, it only ups your maximum Resonance by 1. So if you have a Resonance of 6 and you take one Submersion grade, your Resonance remains at 6 but you can now raise it 7 with additional Karma expenditures.

- Should I try to get to 6 in Resonnance and then have 5 with the tests ?

Again, not completely sure what you're asking here. I can say that I didn't take a stitch of cyber or bioware on my Technomancer and bought my Resonance at 6, and it has thusfar paid off.

- I read that choosing between charisma/intuition/logic/willpower for fading tests was possible, is that true ? I didn't find it anywhere in the core book and the unwired book.

The stats you use to resist Fading are determined by your Data Stream, which is covered in Unwired. It's similar to a Magician's discipline. The Data Stream you take determines which stat + Resonance you roll to resist Fading, and also which Sprites you can compile.

- How do sprites exactly work ? If I create a rating 3 sprite with 2 tasks, will he just be able to run 2 different compatible programms with a rating of 3 ? can they use programms I don't know ?

The number of tasks a Sprite is compiled with does not have any baring on how many programs it can run. Like a Technomancer, all of its Complex Forms are considered to be active. The rating of a Sprite determines the rating of the Complex Forms, and also how many optional Forms it can take as explained in each individual Sprite's entry.

- Is it a good option to buy registered sprites at the character creation ? what does it give since I can maybe register it myself ? extra rating on the sprite ?

I started with one registered Machine Sprite because I wanted to have it handy in case we started the campaign with a combat, but by and large, since Sprites don't require any investment other than time to register, it seems to me like it's a better idea to save the build points and not start with one registered. You do not gain any benefits from starting with a registered Sprite other than starting with a registered Sprite. Whether that's a big enough benefit to warrant spending build points is up to you.

- In a realistic scenario ( or almost realistic, we are still in 2072 ;p ), why is a technomancer with some attack and cybercombat capabilities bad ? ( And plz don't compare it to other player choosing hacker, it is not a mmorpg, I want to do role play with friends of mine and only that, and if I can be useful sometimes with crashing an icon, beatting a random hacker created by my gamemaster IG, it's sufficient )

I did not take any Complex Forms that make my Technomancer especially good in cybercombat, as I will be relying on Sprites to do most of the fighting. You could build a fairly effective cybercombat specialist, but something to keep in mind is that while you will only be doing damage to the target's Matrix Condition Monitor (in most cases), they will ALWAYS be doing physical damage to you because a Technomancer must run in hot-sim.

As for real-world skills, it's very difficult to build a Technomancer who is exceptionally effective in meat-space combat. You can make one who is competent, but it's best to pick one type of weapon (for example, my Technomancer is a sniper) and stick with that. Without buying Echoes, you will only be getting one initiative pass unless you sacrifice Resonance to take cyberware, which doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me.

     
- What do you still think of my character after having read all of this ?

I think the character is far too generalized, honestly. Having so many skills at rank 1 is not doing you very much good... probably best to pick one or two things you want your character to do outside of the Matrix and focus on those. With a Charisma of 6, I'd recommend focusing on face skills, but if that isn't your bag, maybe being stealthy is a good choice? Up to you how to focus, but I would definitely not try and be generalized to the point of losing effectiveness.

Hope that helps!

BlackSheep

[Katrex]

You're asking too much of a technomancer its one thing to cyber him and ask him to be decent in combat its another to ask for that and make him facey.
Drop the arm drop the combat, make him a good technomancer, with resonance 6 and rating 6 complex forms, Or drop the compiling and regestring and charisma and make him decent in combat and decent in technomancy,

[Fruz]

First of all, thanks for your answer, that helps ^^.
I have still ofc questions, from your answers :


Where does analyze arrives within the different steps of exploring the matrix ? At the moment, most tests I have been doing ( during only one scenario so ) where :
1) Oh I can see the node of the camera I want to spoof
2) stealth
3) exploit
4) spoof

and replace 1) buy I connect on the matrix and look for the informations I want for other exemples, or replace 4) by edit.
So where should I have been using analyze there ?


What are the different steps with that smart-gun system ?
Does it work like that ? :
1) get a machine-sprite in the biologic node
2) use the CF smartlink
3) Ask the sprite to use the command CF into the gun from through the smartlink
Which command exactly do I have to give ? What roll does it make ? ith my 1(+2) can I get up to an additionnal +3 ? which skills does it need ?


Can a sprite I compile use a CF I don't know ?


To learn a CF with 2 points of karma ( for smartlink at least ;p ), do I need to find another technomancer or a spirte I didn't compile myself ?


Is 4 resonnance ( so after deducing the 1 point because of 5.3 essence obviously ) enough or should I get 6 ??


Why do you think it's too generalyzed ? It's my first character and I'm quite noob at it, but below 2 with strength / body my gamemaster is not really fine with it, I will use toxin and that's why I have 3 in body, 3 agility is one point for the gun and the dodge ( my gamemaster wants me to have dodge as well ), and he told me that 2 rea was really bad and I should get 3 as well. So that's the part for the physical attributes.
- Athletics skill group is for normal purpose like I'm a normal adult beingg and should obviously be able to swimm if needed in the scenario, or to run, to climb a bit, etc ...
- Influence is because I like to have a little bit of the "face" type ( with the high charisma it should not be that bad ), and having 0 in that group is not possible with my game master either, my character can talk to people, and that means he has the basics of negociations and so like every normal person. He is a normal being before being a technomancer.

Are those the things that make you said it's generalized ? or do you think that having skills like hardware at 1 is useless and that I should better get points with dropping it ? ( I though I should get at least the group just in case I would need it ).


EDIT for the previous post :

As written in the first post, the arm and the toxin extractor is part of the background and I don't think I'm gonna re-create it since I made already one scenario, it's still possible though eventually.
and How dropping compiling would it make him better in technomancy ? ? ? Oo
And don't forget I have 40 more starting points, that should make it easyer to do what I'm looking for.
The "face" part takes charisma ( 30 points, which is usefull with biofeedback filter and if I choose the good stream, the fading ), plus one group influence and 4 or 8 more points in etiquette, is it that much ?

[squee_nabob]

First, I want to direct you to Umaro’s Archetypes TMs (the Info Savant and Cyber Shaman), they are both good examples of how to build a TM. Look at the Cyber Shaman for a charisma-based Elf TM (who can also face).

Where does analyze arrives within the different steps of exploring the matrix ? At the moment, most tests I have been doing ( during only one scenario so ) where :
1) Oh I can see the node of the camera I want to spoof
2) stealth
3) exploit
4) spoof

and replace 1) buy I connect on the matrix and look for the informations I want for other exemples, or replace 4) by edit.
So where should I have been using analyze there ?

Analyze is used for matrix perception tests (MPT) (SRA 228). I’m not sure exactly what you are asking, Analyze is used to find out if nodes are encrypted, databombed, etc as well as their access ID. If you can see the camera, you can use “detect hidden node” if it is in hidden mode to see it so you can MPT, otherwise you can MPT right away. So see camera, Detect Hidden Node (maybe) then MPT then spoof/hack/edit (edit usually follows the hack) as you want.

If you can see it, that’s just allowing you to Detect Hidden Node. Both ways you are connecting via the matrix (unless you mean from outside mutual signal range). Note the camera is probably slaved so you want to MPT, find the Masters Access ID, then spoof using that.

What are the different steps with that smart-gun system ?
Does it work like that ? :
1) get a machine-sprite in the biologic node
2) use the CF smartlink
3) Ask the sprite to use the command CF into the gun from through the smartlink
Which command exactly do I have to give ? What roll does it make ? ith my 1(+2) can I get up to an additionnal +3 ? which skills does it need ?

Smartgun system works like this -> Image Link + Smart Link + Smartgun = +2 bonus.

If you mean Diagnostics then -> Sprite has account on node, Sprite uses Diagnostics Power = Teamwork bonus

Can a sprite I compile use a CF I don't know ?

Yes

To learn a CF with 2 points of karma ( for smartlink at least ;p ), do I need to find another technomancer or a spirte I didn't compile myself ?

Learning Complex Forms (SR4A 240). Also, smartlink is a bad CF to learn, just wear contact lenses with smartlink in them. Or you can just thread it when you want it.

Is 4 resonnance ( so after deducing the 1 point because of 5.3 essence obviously ) enough or should I get 6 ??

Resonance is your “Win at Matrix” stat. It adds to Fade Resistance, governs how high your CF ratings can be, and how big a sprite you can summon. You want 6 to be the best TM you can be. Resonance is an exception to not hard-capping. It will cost you more to buy up the CFs later than to hard cap now.

Why do you think it's too generalyzed ?

I think it’s too generalized because you aren’t focusing on being the best TM you can be, you have too many extraneous things. You want 1 STR, 3 Body, and use an automatic weapon on wide burst mode in meat combat. Actually use a Drone in meat combat but the automatic weapon when you can’t.

Reaction 1, Athletics 0, Influence 1 or 4, Electronics Group at 4. I’d softcap charisma at 7.

The problem is, is that being a TM takes all of your points, so you are adding in background stuff that will degrade your effectiveness. I understand back story comes first, just understand you are paying for it with your effectiveness.

I will be happy to answer any other questions, just remember I’m answering from an optimization perspective so if you don’t care about being the most optimized you can be, go ahead and disregard my comments.

[Fruz]

thanks for answering that much =))

I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ?

what do you mean by "MPT" ?
And my gamemaster and I may be skipping steps are we're new with the concept of hacking/technomancy and more generally shadowrun. I'll take analyze.

how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p
So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?

Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?

I'll try to raise my resonnance to 6(5)

Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.

Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p
What do you think of that version ? :


Body : 3
Agi : 2
Rea : 2
Str  : 1
Char : 6
Int : 4
Log : 4
Will : 3
Edge : 2
Resonnance : 6(5)

Qualities : Technomancer / Paragon / Resist toxin 1
Neg Qualities : Int ennemy 2 / Addiction 2 / Lust / amnesia / exotic birds phobia


Skills :
 Guns 1 ( +2 hold out )
 Blade 1 ( +2 retractable )
 Infiltration 1
 Perception 1
 Dodge 1 ( +2 projectiles )

Athletics group 1
Influence group 1
   Etiquette 2
Electronics group 2
    Software 4
Crackin group 1
    Hacking 5
Tasking :
  Compiling 5
  Decompiling 1
  Registering 3

EDIT : forgot the CFs :
 Analyze ooooo
 Armor ooooo
 Stealth ooooo
 spoof ooooo
 Browse (Data search) ooooo
 Edit (Hacking) ooooo
 Exploit (Hacking) ooooo
 smartlink o

And 2 more question I still have at the moment :
  - In which situation should I use sprites over CFs and the other way around ?
  - I'll probably be using combat drugs in meat world ( background, addiction to toxin + toxin extractor ), so how does the bad effect part works ? can I resist the some of the Xstun dmgs from Betameth/Cram/Jazz drug ?

[All4BigGuns]

I'd have to agree with dropping those implants. I say the same thing when it comes to Awakened. Background is good, but taking implants because of backstory when it's going to fubar your effectiveness just seems silly to me. Athletics skill group means that you've put some focus into getting some serious training in those skills. You can still swim, run and climb without the skills (as long as you aren't incompetent--negative quality--with them). You've already said you want to be something of a Face, so that Influence skill group is good for you.

Do you plan on breaking into maglocks or other things manually? If not, drop the hardware skill. You don't need it, and it's taking up points, and choose one method of combat. You're getting only 3 dice from skill in those combat skills, so why not just drop one of them (both specialties since you aren't mainly a combat character) and put two more points into the other skill--pistols seems good.

Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.

[JustADude]

what do you mean by "MPT" ?

That would be the (M)atrix (P)erception (T)est, mentioned earlier in the same post.

Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.

In other words; Mini-Max like hell, and then make a fitting background to explain why the character is like that.

I actually find it more interesting to have to make up stories that are good at explaining the weird little tricks that optimize the mechanics. Not just hand-waves, but actual, compelling back-story.

[Black Sheep]

I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ?

There isn't very much you will end up using your System for as a Technomancer, I found, which is what Logic is tied to. Also, even as a regular hacker, you don't need Logic to be good at hacking as your stat does not figure into any matrix tests.

how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p
So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?

I don't mean to sound rude here, but the Diagnostics power is incredibly simple, and the explanation given for it under the Sprite abilities is pretty clear. It's on page 242 of the Shadowrun 4th Ed 20th Anniversary edition, about halfway down on the second column. It pretty explicitly explains how it works.

Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?

This is kind of a two-part answer here, but to address the first part, you can just buy a contact lens with smart link and an image link and a gun with smartgun system, which is all you need to gain the benefits of Smartlink. If you take it as a Complex Form, the only thing it does for you is remove the need for the contact lens. Since the contact lens with smart link and image link only costs (I believe) around 200 nuyen, you're way better off spending the money than the 1 build point, which is worth 5000 nuyen.

Second, Threading a Complex Form only gives you the -2 dice to all tests not involving that Complex Form. If you Threaded smart link, you would not receive a -2 penalty on firing the gun, but you would take the -2 on everything else as long as you sustain it. This applies no matter which CF you are Threading.

Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.

As All4BigGuns said, Hardware is useful for interfacing with non-wireless electronic devices like maglocks. Computer is used in conjunction with a lot of programs for Matrix tests, such as Data Search when looking for information. Basically, if you are using a Complex Form that isn't imitating a program out of the Hacking group, odds are it will be Computer + Complex Form instead of Hacking + Complex Form to make the check.

Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p
What do you think of that version ? :

Yes. But you should pick one or two good things you want to take instead of grabbing a bunch of skills at rank 1 that aren't going to do you any good.

In which situation should I use sprites over CFs and the other way around ?

Well, Sprites and Complex Forms aren't really comparable. It's kind of analogous to asking when it's better to use a Spell or summon a Spirit. A Complex Form does one specific thing that you must direct. A Sprite is usually good at a couple of things, plus they all have powers that give them an edge in doing something that you cannot do alone (like Diagnostics for the Machine Sprite). Complex Forms define what you can do, whereas Sprites give you access to other options outside of that.

Plus, if they're Registered, they are capable of doing work for you elsewhere in the Matrix. Technically, my bound Crack Sprite is a far better hacker than my Technomancer actually is, so when trying to get into a node, I have the two work together for a greater chance of success.

Basically, as you play, you just need to get a feel for when you want to have a Sprite do the job and when you need to do it yourself or help the Sprite do it.

I'll probably be using combat drugs in meat world ( background, addiction to toxin + toxin extractor ), so how does the bad effect part works ? can I resist the some of the Xstun dmgs from Betameth/Cram/Jazz drug ?

This is another one of those things where it's entirely based on the individual drug. The drug will explain what the side effects are in its description, and as I recall, you generally cannot resist the damage they do. It will tell you in the description (usually it will say "you suffer 5S (unresisted)" to denote when you can't actually resist the damage.

BlackSheep

[squee_nabob]

I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ?

Intuition is important for the Info Savant (who is an intutition based TM), and not important for the Cyber Shaman (charisma based TM). Basically intuition only helps you act first on the matrix (response and matrix initative). A cyber shaman can’t spare the points to be better than IC or Spiders (who can have response 5+ and response enhancers), so he might as well have intuition 1 and spend edge to act first when he needs to.

Logic = number of CFs x2 you can know at the start. You want to know 6 CFs (Analyze, Disarm, Exploit, Spoof, Stealth, Command), so you want logic 3. Other than that Logic doesn’t help you very much.

what do you mean by "MPT" ?

MPT = Matrix Perception Test

Also, no one can run the matrix as written, so however you and your GM decide to run it is good for you, I am making comments based on my interpretation of the Matrix rules, but every group has their own interpretation.

how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p

There is no teamwork bonus for smartgun. Smartgun System (SR4A 322) gives a +2 bonus (not a teamwork bonus) if you have a smartgun system on the gun and a smartlink vision enhancement (SR4A 333) (generally on contact lenses or glasses).

So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?

Diagnostics is explained on SR4A 242. It is fairly well explained, basically you have the sprite on the node (so it has an account), then you tell it to use Diagnostics, and it rolls rating x2 as a teamwork test to using that node. Note, you cannot use Diagnostics on your bionode because the bionode is not an electronic device. You can have a sprite use diagnostics on the gun though for teamwork bonus.

Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?

It’s a bad CF to learn because you can just have smartlink on your glasses and not pay BP for it. Also, threading gives you -2 to all tests not using the threaded form. So if you thread smartlink, then shoot someone with the smartlinked gun, you don’t get a -2 because you are using smartlink.

Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.

Hardware = Maglocks (you only throw 7 dice, but you can assist others). Computer = computer + edit tests (also weird one off tests). Browse = Data Search (which is very important). Softwave = threading (so you need it). Basically all 4 skills have uses, so if you can scrounge up the points it is cheaper to buy it as a group.

Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p

I don’t know what you mean by “quite good”. If you mean better than a 400 BP TM, then only if you make optimized choices. Basically you can spend 40 points on suboptimal things and still end up as optimized as a 400 pt optimized character. Again,  you can make all the suboptimal choices you want, I’m just commenting on how to get the biggest dice pools for common tasks.


React 1, charisma 7, logic 3, intuition 1, edge 5 = -10 BP
What paragon?
Guns isn’t a skill, you want automatics (or pistols, but automatics is more versatile)
Blades is bad (I’m assuming you have this for story reasons).
Dodge is bad (again story reasons)
Athletics is bad (story reasons)
You can’t break a skill group during character creation (so you have to have etiquette 1, software 2 and hacking 1).
Tasking is bad because decompiling sucks. Also you can’t split the group at char creation.

If I were to redo it, sell back guns, blades, dodge, athletics (-18 BP), and assuming you paid 4 BP for each point above the group limit; you save 52 BP. Now we’ve saved 80 BP. Spending it again:

Sell back Cracking 1 (-10), buy Hacking 6 (+24 BP), Buy Electronics Group up to 4 (+20). Sell back Tasking 1 (-10), buy Compiling 4 and Registering 4 (+32) left with 24 points.

Buy +2 Influence (up to 3), and we need to scare up 6 more points for influence 4. Alternatively buy Electronic Warfare 1. Also you can sell back Influence 3 and Hardcap charisma (buying biowires in game and using those).

Sprites: If you don’t care about being caught and just want the data: slam a high rating Crack sprite at it. Sleuth Sprites are good at finding hidden nodes (better than the char I just outlined). Sprites are better at cybercombat. Other than that (I may have forgotten some), sprites are used for powers (Diagnostics, Traceroute, Probability Distribution, Proficiency etc.

For Drugs, read the entry. Betameth specifically says “unresisted” (Arsenal 74), Cram specifically says “unresisted” (SR4A 257). Jazz doesn’t do damage (SR4A 257). Drugs are straightforward, just read the entries.

Edit: Ninja’d for MPT.
Edit: Ninja’d Again! Why am I so slow!

[Black Sheep]

Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.

In other words; Mini-Max like hell, and then make a fitting background to explain why the character is like that.

I actually find it more interesting to have to make up stories that are good at explaining the weird little tricks that optimize the mechanics. Not just hand-waves, but actual, compelling back-story.

There has to be at least some level of min-maxing in any point-based system. That being said, my Technomancer has 4 ranks in Artisan specialized in Singing because... well, yeah. Backstory. Could I have used those points better? Oh hells yes. However, gotta get those little pieces of story in.

I think what he means is that people who are not specialized or good at a specific thing would not realistically become Shadowrunners. You don't take the guy along who dabbles a little in Rigging his household drones as well as having a little bit of time on the pistol range with his dad when he was younger in between learning to cook Italian along with you on a mission where his skill level will mean the difference between life and death, you take the guy who has spent years Rigging combat drones and knows how to hit a target in a fight.

To me, he's saying you build the character to be good at his/her role before you spend the points on fleshing out the background, because ultimately, being a Shadowrunner in the first place basically requires he be good at his role. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be one.

... Though, now that I think about it, having a Rigger who knows how to cook a good veal marsala might be worth the trade-off...

[Fruz]

I misunderstood the purpose of a sprite, now I see much better what it's like !
That is why I didn't really know what diagnostic was about.
so basically, I need a registered machine sprite ( let's say of rating 3, should not be that hard to register within a week ), then I thread a smartlink or take some contacts/gogos, and roll 6 dices. All success from those dices will be like added to my pistol's skill in addition to the basic +2, right ?
So by having 2 succes out of those 6 dices, I could get 1+4(+2) = 7 dices + agility ( 5 from the arm ) = 12 dices for the pistol. Thats sounds pretty good !!
I'll do that then thanks for the informations.

For the wearing contacts'/gogos or using non-wireless electronic devices, I remember reading somewhere that some technomancer would almost never use such things because they would find it too old, too primitive, and that was what I was thinking for my character, but maybe I'm wrong on that and I will consider taking the whole electronics group. We have already a member of our group that has some hacking skills ( even though he is not an awesome hacker ), so I thouhg eventually he could do that, I will think about it.

If not having the athletics group means that you can still do it, but has no further training in it, I'm fine with that and will most probably drop it.



There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.


I'll make another version later today as I have no time right now, I think I'm gonna drop athletics and adjust a few things.

[Netzgeist]

There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.

What this means is that the node you are trying to hack in (using your Hacking + Exploit test) can do a Analyze + Firewall test to discover you trying to hack in; your Stealth CF is the number of hits the node need to get to discover you. So, yes, you don't use Stealth in your test (there's just one case I guess, when you're making a hidden account in someplace), but you will like it to be quite high, and it's worth threading it.

[Black Sheep]

so basically, I need a registered machine sprite ( let's say of rating 3, should not be that hard to register within a week ), then I thread a smartlink or take some contacts/gogos, and roll 6 dices. All success from those dices will be like added to my pistol's skill in addition to the basic +2, right ?
So by having 2 succes out of those 6 dices, I could get 1+4(+2) = 7 dices + agility ( 5 from the arm ) = 12 dices for the pistol. Thats sounds pretty good !!

One thing you need to keep in mind is that the bonus Diagnostics gives you can't be higher than your actual skill, so if you have a Handguns skill of 2, then it can give you additional 2 dice. Any hits it gets beyond those 2 dice are essentially gone.

There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.

You are correct that you do not roll Stealth in that situation... it provides the Threshold the system needs to hit in order to detect your presence. So, if you have a Stealth of 5, it needs to roll a total of 5 hits in order to be able to see you. Now, when hacking on the fly, I believe that becomes an extended test, so every time you take an action, it rolls again and adds those hits to its previous total, needing 5 total hits to see you. Thus why hacking on the fly is less favorable than probing the target, where the system only gets one roll, but necessary in many situations when you need to get in and out quickly.

To answer the second part of that, yes, you can absolutely Thread Stealth, which would raise the number of hits the defending system needs to spot you. Just keep in mind that unless you have something else sustaining it (such as a registered Sprite), you'll take the -2 penalty on all checks you make while your Stealth is Threaded, just like any other CF.