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New Former Soldier (I think improved).

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All4BigGuns

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« on: <02-13-12/0009:28> »

== Info ==
Street Name: Vick
Name: Victor Stone
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 6
Lift/Carry: 14 (135 kg/90 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5
AGI: 5 (9)
REA: 3 (7)
STR: 3 (9)
CHA: 3
INT: 3
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 3

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   2.6
Initiative:                6 (10)
IP:                        1 (2)
Matrix Initiative:         8
Matrix IP:                 2
Physical Damage Track:     11
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 2
Animal Training            : 0                      Pool: 2
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 8
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Automatics                 : 4                      Pool: 15
Blades                     : 4                      Pool: 13
Climbing                   : 2                      Pool: 11
Clubs                      : 4                      Pool: 13
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Con                        : 1                      Pool: 4
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 2
Data Search                : 0                      Pool: 2
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 2
Disguise                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 4
Dodge                      : 0                      Pool: 6
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 8
Etiquette                  : 1                      Pool: 4
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Flight                     : 2                      Pool: 11
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 8
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 8
Gymnastics                 : 2                      Pool: 11
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Heavy Weapons              : 2                      Pool: 13
Infiltration               : 3                      Pool: 12
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 2
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 2
Leadership                 : 1                      Pool: 4
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 8
Longarms                   : 4                      Pool: 15
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Negotiation                : 1                      Pool: 4
Palming                    : 0                      Pool: 8
Parachuting                : 1                      Pool: 6
Perception                 : 2                      Pool: 5
Pilot Ground Craft         : 0                      Pool: 6
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 6
Pistols                    : 4                      Pool: 15
Riding                     : 0                      Pool: 6
Running                    : 2                      Pool: 11
Shadowing                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Survival                   : 2                      Pool: 5
Swimming                   : 2                      Pool: 11
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 8
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat             : 4                      Pool: 13

== Knowledge Skills ==
English                    : N                      Pool: 0
Japanese                   : 3                      Pool: 6
Military                   : 4 [Army]               Pool: 7 (9)
Music                      : 3                      Pool: 6
Spanish                    : 3                      Pool: 6
Sports                     : 3 [Combat Biking]      Pool: 6 (8)

== Contacts ==
Army Sergeant (3, 6)
Fixer (4, 3)

== Qualities ==
Flashbacks (Uncommon)
Mania/Phobia (Common, Mild) (Flying)
Records on File (UCAS Army)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
Sensitive Neural Structure
SINner (Standard) (Timothy Green - UCAS Citizen)

== Lifestyles ==
Tacoma Apartment  2 months
   Comforts:      Middle
   Entertainment: Middle
   Necessities:   Middle
   Neighborhood:  Low
   Security:      High

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Move-by-Wire System Rating 1
Muscle Augmentation Rating 4
Muscle Toner Rating 4
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2

== Armor ==
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
   +Nonconductivity 6
Helmet                    1/2
   +Responsive Interface Gear
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Low Light
   +Smartlink
Light Military Armor      12/10
   +Biomonitor
   +Gyromount
   +Nonconductivity 6
   +Responsive Interface Gear
   +Strength Upgrade 2
Lined Coat                6/4

== Weapons ==
Ares Alpha
   +Foregrip
   +Sling
   +Gas Vent 3
   +Skinlink
   +Smartgun System
   DV: 6P   AP: -1   RC: 8
Ares Desert Strike
   +Imaging Scope
   +Shock Pad
   +Stock
   +Barrel Extension
   +Skinlink
   +Smartgun System
   DV: 8P   AP: -3   RC: 2
AZ-150 Stun Baton
   DV: 7S(e)   AP: -half   RC: 0
Colt Government 2066
   +Skinlink
   +Smartgun System
   DV: 5P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Grenade: Fragmentation
   DV: 12P(f) (-1/m)   AP: +5   RC: 0
Grenade: Gas
   DV: Chemical (10m Radius)   AP: -   RC: 0
Grenade: High Explosive
   DV: 10P (-2/m)   AP: -2   RC: 0
HK 227-X
   +Foregrip
   +Sling
   +Stock
   +Gas Vent 3
   +Heavy Barrel
   +Skinlink
   +Smartgun System
   +Sound Suppressor
   DV: 5P   AP: -   RC: 8
Monofilament Sword
   DV: 8P   AP: -1   RC: 0
Shock Glove
   DV: 5S(e)   AP: -half   RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
   DV: 5S   AP: -   RC: 0

== Commlink ==
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
   +Vector Xim
Singularity Battle Buddy Basic (5, 5, 5, 5)
   +Custom Commlink OS [Firewall 5, System 5]
   +Skinlink
   +Hardening Rating 6
   +Sim Module (Cold)
   +AR Gloves
   +Subvocal Microphone
   +Trodes
   +FTL Matrixware Power Suite [Analyze 3, Browse 4, Command 2, Edit 4, Purge 4, Scan 2]

== Gear ==
Contact Lenses Rating 3
   +Vision Magnification
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 3
   +Skinlink
Earbuds Rating 3
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Glasses Rating 4
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
   +Flare Compensation
   +Thermographic
   +Skinlink
Spare Clip (Colt Govt) x10
   +Ammo: Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols)
   +Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Heavy Pistols)
Spare Clip (Ares Alpha) x10
   +Ammo: Regular Ammo (Assault Rifles)
Spare Clip (Ares Alpha Grenade Launcher) x6
   +Grenade: High Explosive
   +Grenade: Gas
   +Grenade: Fragmentation
Spare Clip (Ares Desert Strike) x10
   +Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Sniper Rifles)
Spare Clip (HK 227-X) x10
   +Ammo: Regular Ammo (Submachine Guns)

== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
   +Vehicle Sensor


Mainly did this to see just how far I could go.
« Last Edit: <02-13-12/0011:00> by All4BigGuns »
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Irian

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« Reply #1 on: <02-13-12/0553:56> »
Honestly, I always felt that it's a strange idea to take a mediocre soldier and give him cyberware for more than 100k¥. Doing this for all soldiers doesn't seem doable to me (expensive), so I personally would only use the best soldiers for something like that, allowing me to use them in elite units where top performance is important, not just... normal... ones. Which means, for me, that I simply cannot justify having 200k¥ in cyberware with "He was a soldier", as I cannot build a soldier good enough for that :-)
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JustADude

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« Reply #2 on: <02-13-12/0616:57> »
Honestly, I always felt that it's a strange idea to take a mediocre soldier and give him cyberware for more than 100k¥. Doing this for all soldiers doesn't seem doable to me (expensive), so I personally would only use the best soldiers for something like that, allowing me to use them in elite units where top performance is important, not just... normal... ones. Which means, for me, that I simply cannot justify having 200k¥ in cyberware with "He was a soldier", as I cannot build a soldier good enough for that :-)

Really, it makes sense. The Move-By-Wire lets a soldier just drop into whatever role is needed via skillsofts, and everything else is pretty typical stuff for anyone serious about winning a fight. The only thing I arc an eyebrow at is the Muscle Augmentation; they'd be more likely to just stick to Strength Enhancement in the armor.

Other than that one thing it seems totally justifiable, especially since the military would probably get bulk/wholesale discounts, because Muscle Toner and Muscle Augmentation can put someone squarely in the "Super-metahuman" range from very mediocre stats. Throw in a Suprathyroid and you go from "Mildly Athletic" (aka 4) to "WTF?!" (aka hard-capped at 9). Anything above that is wasted, so the military wouldn't LOOK for anything above that.
« Last Edit: <02-13-12/0625:26> by JustADude »
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
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"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Crash_00

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« Reply #3 on: <02-13-12/0751:40> »
Other than horrible Karma efficiency, there really aren't many issues that I see, but a lot of stuff can be tweaked. I kind of see where Irian is coming from. I could see them taking exceptional soldiers and pumping high dollar augs into them, but at the same token, the rules don't always match reality.

I suggest dropping Muscle Aug to 2, it will save you 5 pts for the restricted gear and another 14k from the money you spent on it. I'd turn that around and put it into upgrading to heavy armor (8k), and Str. Upgrade 3 (1.5k). Softweave it (2k) and Mobility Upgrade 1 (2.5k). If you can come up with another 1.5k you can also Gel Pack it making it 19/17 (11/17 encumbrance) with the encumbrance penalty eliminated by the Mobility Upgrade.

Your strength will only be an 8 in armor (You'll lose 1 DV off of melee), but you'll have a much better suit of armor, some free capacity, and you can always upgrade your aug later to put you up to a 10 in armor (Strength Enhancement on the armor specifically does not cap at your max). You'll also have five free points (which can go to money if you didn't cap it). If you didn't cap money, I suggest Ruthenium coating for the suit, but keep in mind you'd need to Chameleon Coat your weapons for it to work well.

For melee weapons I highly recommend giving them the Personalized Grip mod. It's ridiculously cheap and grants a +1 bonus to your dice pool.

I really don't even recommend taking RG for the muscle toner. It costs 16k to upgrade a 2 to a 4 which is dirt cheap in game, but you're spending 8 points on it (equivalent of 40k worth) to get it at creation.

I'm assuming you're using chummer which is taking capacity out for you skinlink on your contacts (it doesn't cost any capacity by RAW, it takes up mod slots instead). Chummer does this with a lot of things, especially when it gets to armor mods that don't normally cost capacity (Ruthenium Coating, Gel Packs, etc.)

The way your skills are spread out, this is really a character that would have benefitted heavily from Karma Gen.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #4 on: <02-13-12/1152:04> »
Other than horrible Karma efficiency, there really aren't many issues that I see, but a lot of stuff can be tweaked. I kind of see where Irian is coming from. I could see them taking exceptional soldiers and pumping high dollar augs into them, but at the same token, the rules don't always match reality.

I suggest dropping Muscle Aug to 2, it will save you 5 pts for the restricted gear and another 14k from the money you spent on it. I'd turn that around and put it into upgrading to heavy armor (8k), and Str. Upgrade 3 (1.5k). Softweave it (2k) and Mobility Upgrade 1 (2.5k). If you can come up with another 1.5k you can also Gel Pack it making it 19/17 (11/17 encumbrance) with the encumbrance penalty eliminated by the Mobility Upgrade.

Your strength will only be an 8 in armor (You'll lose 1 DV off of melee), but you'll have a much better suit of armor, some free capacity, and you can always upgrade your aug later to put you up to a 10 in armor (Strength Enhancement on the armor specifically does not cap at your max). You'll also have five free points (which can go to money if you didn't cap it). If you didn't cap money, I suggest Ruthenium coating for the suit, but keep in mind you'd need to Chameleon Coat your weapons for it to work well.

For melee weapons I highly recommend giving them the Personalized Grip mod. It's ridiculously cheap and grants a +1 bonus to your dice pool.

I really don't even recommend taking RG for the muscle toner. It costs 16k to upgrade a 2 to a 4 which is dirt cheap in game, but you're spending 8 points on it (equivalent of 40k worth) to get it at creation.

I'm assuming you're using chummer which is taking capacity out for you skinlink on your contacts (it doesn't cost any capacity by RAW, it takes up mod slots instead). Chummer does this with a lot of things, especially when it gets to armor mods that don't normally cost capacity (Ruthenium Coating, Gel Packs, etc.)

The way your skills are spread out, this is really a character that would have benefitted heavily from Karma Gen.

Chummer isn't taking extra capacity out of my contacts or glasses. As to the generation system, I believe my feelings toward "that system" are well established enough at this point that they don't need repeating.

The other stuff were things that will be considered, only thing is that I feel bad enough having Light Military Armor, and it's also hard enough to squeak it past some GMs. Anything heavier would bring undue aggression down on the character.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Crash_00

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« Reply #5 on: <02-13-12/1251:18> »
The reason I mentioned the contacts was that you have rating 3 contacts but only 2 capacity is being used by the enhancements. Likewise on your earbuds, you have rating 3 and only 1 capacity is being used (there is errata covering that issue. I believe one of the printings lists Audio enhancements as taking rating in capacity, but the errata confirms that they work like visual enhancement with the enhancements each taking 1 point of capacity).

As far as the armor goes, if its military grade gear, you can be sure its going to get you hosed pretty bad regardless of what grade it is. That's why I recommend just going all the way with it (and lets be honest, the extra armor is really only soaking 1.33 extra DV on average). The main reason I suggest it is for the extra capacity for tossing in extra MilSpec options. There are some fun ones in there (I'm a big fan of Hydraulic jacks, allowing for a very mobile sniper).

You can dislike karma gen all you want, but for a human with lots of skills and low attributes for the most part (6 3s) you can pull off the same thing with capped agility and 50 karma to spare using Karma Gen (The german version that is actually close to the BP system). None of your skills are high really. Most of thats because you're taking skill groups, but for instance survival could be dropped to one letting you boost infiltration to 4 saving you karma down the road in the BP system. Not doing that causes a resource waste. You don't get that in Karma Gen ever.

Lethe

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« Reply #6 on: <02-13-12/1325:40> »
Honestly, I always felt that it's a strange idea to take a mediocre soldier and give him cyberware for more than 100k¥. Doing this for all soldiers doesn't seem doable to me (expensive), so I personally would only use the best soldiers for something like that, allowing me to use them in elite units where top performance is important, not just... normal... ones. Which means, for me, that I simply cannot justify having 200k¥ in cyberware with "He was a soldier", as I cannot build a soldier good enough for that :-)
One soldier costs around 100k¥ per year. The version 2.0 being twice as accurate at shooting and shooting twice as fast and is harder to take down, is worth a couple soldiers. So i can see them put ware in soldiers for a one time investment and put him into an augmented platoon or something.

But i can also see that they wont let that investment disappear easily. There will be psychological test, to see if the soldier is worth the augmenting. Patriotism, bravery,... seen Captain America? Not the physical best will be augmented, but the ones mentally stable and willing to give it all for the cause. Maybe even a contract tat the soldier has to give stuff back if he retires - the implants were only for for using, not for keeping.

Such a person would be very unlikely to leave the army. He might retire at the age of 50+, but then he won't go shadowrunning anymore. What other reason for leaving can you imagine, without getting the army as an enemy.

So as a soldier he is ok, but as a former soldier unlikely...

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #7 on: <02-13-12/1329:30> »
The reason I mentioned the contacts was that you have rating 3 contacts but only 2 capacity is being used by the enhancements. Likewise on your earbuds, you have rating 3 and only 1 capacity is being used (there is errata covering that issue. I believe one of the printings lists Audio enhancements as taking rating in capacity, but the errata confirms that they work like visual enhancement with the enhancements each taking 1 point of capacity).

Chummer is doing that with the earbuds, but I'm fine with it. Just have to buy the rating three for the one enhancement I really wanted (earbuds are cheap enough that it doesn't really matter that much).

As far as the armor goes, if its military grade gear, you can be sure its going to get you hosed pretty bad regardless of what grade it is. That's why I recommend just going all the way with it (and lets be honest, the extra armor is really only soaking 1.33 extra DV on average). The main reason I suggest it is for the extra capacity for tossing in extra MilSpec options. There are some fun ones in there (I'm a big fan of Hydraulic jacks, allowing for a very mobile sniper).

It really comes down to personal preference. I have all the stuff I really want in that armor (except chemical seal, but the problem there would be the same with the medium and heavy--putting it on there would put the availability over the limit for Restricted Gear.

You can dislike karma gen all you want, but for a human with lots of skills and low attributes for the most part (6 3s) you can pull off the same thing with capped agility and 50 karma to spare using Karma Gen (The german version that is actually close to the BP system). None of your skills are high really. Most of thats because you're taking skill groups, but for instance survival could be dropped to one letting you boost infiltration to 4 saving you karma down the road in the BP system. Not doing that causes a resource waste. You don't get that in Karma Gen ever.

I don't see it as a resource waste, and agility is already capped at augmented maximum as is. The "karma efficiency" thing that gets harped on so much really isn't something that, to me, would really be an issue in any but the most long running of games.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #8 on: <02-13-12/1427:47> »
The character has a pretty bad case of average statisticitis.  This may be intentional and if so, please disregard the following paragraph.  The biggest problem is that you don't get much for have way to kill someone at 4 for its cost.  Firearms 4 is 40 BP while automatics 4 is 16BP and works 95% of the time.  Pistols and Heavy Weapons covers all shooting niches for 32BP.  Ditto with the close combat skill.  You also can then get a skill of 6 and that's way better.  I would also drop the Influence group unless you're just worried about GM aggro.  4 dice isn't going to serve you better than 2 dice. 

I'm not actually a fan of military armor.  Its armor value is only slightly better at best and sometimes worse than discrete armor.  It's also amazingly obvious and tends to draw lots of GM aggro.  There's a few nice toys, but most you can live without or get in smaller more managable packages.  In addition despite its name, I don't see militaries using military armor in most cases.  The big issue is that you can't really adjust the suit to another person which makes it all logistically difficult.  I also assume the fitting process would also be hard to set up. Instead of just handing you a vest/armor jacket, they'll have to tailor the suit to you.

You can do a lot better.  After much work, I figured out how to have street legal chem seal armor which I call the Chem Seal Speical.

The Chem Seal Special-
Total: 13/11
Bike Racing Armor (Note: Avail 6 base and has 6 capacity slots) 4/7
      -Chem Seal [4]
      -RIG [2]
Ballistic Mask 2/1 (it can take helmet mods)
Full Suit FFBA 6/2
Securetech PPP Vitals Protector 1/1

You could play around with it more if you hate the ballistic mask. You can wear a simrig and goggles instead.

As for the gyromount, you could just buy a normal gyromount.  You get more RC for the same price.
« Last Edit: <02-13-12/1431:04> by Tsuzua »

Crash_00

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« Reply #9 on: <02-13-12/1606:59> »
That doesn't work RAW. Chem Seal has to be specifically listed on the armor as being able to be taken. SR4A the entry states its only usable on Full Body Armor (which is a specific armor, not just any armor that covers the full body). Several armors in Arsenal state that they can use the Chem Seal as well, but nothing states that any armor can take it.

Also, the Ballistic mask can take helmet mods, but it doesn't have a capacity as far as I can tell. Without capacity, it can't actually accept the RIG modification.

Irian

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« Reply #10 on: <02-13-12/1610:40> »
One soldier costs around 100k¥ per year.

Where is that number from?
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JustADude

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« Reply #11 on: <02-13-12/1617:11> »
One soldier costs around 100k¥ per year.

Where is that number from?

It sounds like he's converting straight from dollars to nuyen based on the housing, salary, medical, extended training, equipment, and other expenses incurred to keep a soldier in the field.
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
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"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #12 on: <02-13-12/1635:40> »
That doesn't work RAW. Chem Seal has to be specifically listed on the armor as being able to be taken. SR4A the entry states its only usable on Full Body Armor (which is a specific armor, not just any armor that covers the full body). Several armors in Arsenal state that they can use the Chem Seal as well, but nothing states that any armor can take it.

Also, the Ballistic mask can take helmet mods, but it doesn't have a capacity as far as I can tell. Without capacity, it can't actually accept the RIG modification.
You're right about the Chem Seal.  I didn't catch it had an explicit restriction and allowance system.  I thought it only had a restriction that armor suits could have it.

You could do the same thing with restricted gear and riot control armor. You'll have to softweave it to wear it though.  However you'll easily end up with 13/14 armor or better depending on your final strength score.

As for ballistic mask, that's true.  It's in the same strange zone the normal helmet has where it has no capacity listed.  It's the same problem the OP has as well (that's no military helmet).

Edit- I would argue that the ballistic mask is suppose to have capacity.  Otherwise, it would have no way to have the visual enhancements it is explicitly allowed to have. 

Also, I should point that that while only restricted and not forbidden, the riot control armor really isn't any more normal street wear than military armor.  I suspect you'll just be harassed less for keeping a suit around or something.
« Last Edit: <02-13-12/1801:09> by Tsuzua »

Crash_00

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« Reply #13 on: <02-13-12/1820:24> »
It's one of my pet peeves that Riot Armor gets the Chem Seal option and SWAT Armor doesn't. That's actually what made me realize that Chem Seal wasn't just readily available to any full suit of armor.

I give Ballistic Masks 3 capacity for vision enhancements personally, but I don't know that I'd actually give them any for anything other than vision enhancements. I don't really see them being able to get an effective full trode just from the face and straps. Then again, the capacity for helmets really hasn't made sense to me at all (7 for FBA and 6 for Riot suits, but Milspec only gets 5 and SWAT only gets 4?). I don't know why they left out how many enhancements they can actually take, but they fall into that same unclear area as Imaging Scopes where its just never made clear.

JustADude

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« Reply #14 on: <02-13-12/1828:35> »
I give Ballistic Masks 3 capacity for vision enhancements personally, but I don't know that I'd actually give them any for anything other than vision enhancements

Personally, I'd go 6, since they're at least as big and bulky as goggles, and there's more room to fit the electronics in.
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