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Combat/Detection Mage

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Pangea

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« on: <02-20-12/0834:56> »
Hello, I've been a gamer for a long time, just never got into Shadowrun (been mainly into WhiteWolf).  Have been reading the rule books and a dozen (so far!) novels these past months, and am now ready to start playing (I live in Paris, France, and am now hooked up with gamers here, so will be taking the character to the GM, of course, but wanted to get some insight here first, to at least have a solid base)...  and here is the character I've come up with, and that I am offering to your critical minds!  (I'd like to thank the frequent posters here, since I've read many topics, that have lots of good info', including the updated beginner characters of course!).

The idea behind the character is to have a pure mage (no Cyber...  pre game mishaps!) who has a basic set of offensive spells, can Counterspell, and heal...  and will probably get into using Spirits (pretty basic Mage I guess).  His "specificity" in the group being to help scope things out , mainly checking places out before entering and as the group goes along, to be forewarned, maybe finding "hidden" rooms/objects...

Concept:  "Rastamage"

(400 BP build)

Metatype:  Ork   (20 BP = 380 BP left)

Positive Qualities:   (30 BP = 350 BP left)
* Magician (15 BP)
Rastafarian Tradition - Drain: Willpower + Intuition
Combat: Man - Detection: Beast  - Health: Plant - Illusion: Water - Manipulation: Guide
* Mentor Spirit (5 BP)
The Wise Warrior (“The Lion of Judah”)
Advantages: +2 dice for Combat and Detection spells
Disadvantages: –1 die to all tests if acting dishonorably, until the character atones for her action
* Restricted Gear (5 BP) – Power Focus
* Restricted Gear (5 BP) – Sustaining Focus

Negative Qualities:   (+35 BP = 385 BP left)
* Moderate Addiction (10 BP) to Deepweed
* Ritual Geas (10 BP) once a day, character must perform a “Reasoning” (Rastafarian discussion, or scripture reading, while smoking Ganja)
* Sensitive System (15 BP) immuno-suppressive problems with implants (in this case due to the years of Ganja & Deepweed smoking?)

Physical & Mental Attributes:   (180 BP = 205 BP left)
(each + is 10 BP, none capped)
4/9 (13) BOD + 1  = 5
1/6 (9) AGI + 1 = 2
1/6 (9) REA + 4 = 5
3/8 (12) STR + 0 = 3
1/5 (7) CHA + 2 = 3
1/6 (9) INT + 4 = 5
1/5 (7) LOG + 2 = 3
1/6 (9) WIL + 4 = 5
Question:  is it a "must" to go for all 200 points in Attributes?  In which case I would raise... CHA & LOG by 1 each? (and lower some skills)

Other Attributes:   (60 BP = 145 BP left)
2/12 (18) INI = 10 (18)
(each + is 10 BP, none capped)
1/6 Edge +2 = 3
6 Essence
1 Magic +4 = 5
Question:  is an average Edge good enough?  Or better to either take none or more (Min/Max)?

Skills:   (76 BP = 69 BP left)
(each + is 4 BP)
Spellcasting (MAG) +6
Counterspelling (MAG) +4
Summoning (MAG) +1   Could drop Summoning & Binding and take later? But seemed nice to try it out from the start
Binding (MAG) +1           Or drop one of the two (Binding)?
Assensing (INT) +1
Perception (INT) +4       I prefer "aware" characters, and fits concept & Detection; but:  only put 1 in Perception?
First Aid (LOG) +1
Etiquette (CHA) +1        Seems like an important Skill, and character is spaced out but not anti-social; but...?
Question 1: is First Aid useful?  I mean, if I use a rank 6 Medkit without any First Aid, I would only lose 1 die, not 1 + 1 for being unskilled, correct (I read that Medkit Rank replaces the First Aid skill?) and I have Heal spell too... Or is First Aid good in case of no Medkit etc.?
Question 2: is there a difference between Assensing & the spell Analyze Magic (Street Magic p.165)?
(beyond the difference of having to cast a spell and use a skill, I mean)
"This spell allows the subject to analyze a spell, spirit, astral form, focus, or other magical item/effect within range of the sense as if assensing it.   To determine the information obtained, note the net hits and consult the Assensing Table (p.    183, SR4)."   
It seems I could drop Assensing in favor of taking the Analyze Magic spell; but...?

Spells:   (30 BP = 39 left)
(10 spells at 3 BP each)
Combat Spells
* Stunbolt   Stun- seems like the go-to spell:  lower DV & can be non-lethal etc.?
* Stunball   Important to have single target + AoE, correct?
* Frost
Question:  Seems important to have a 3rd spell, for non-sentient beings, correct?  And Frost has lower DV than Lightning, and disrupts machines pretty much the same, is that why Frost is "better" than Lightning vs. Drones etc.?
Note:  are Smoke spells any good at all?  Could be funny to have Rastaman casting Ganja-smoke-balls!

Healing Spell
* Heal
* Increase Reflexes

Detection Spells
This where I feel I need the most help - although, maybe, my entire choices above will get ripped apart too!
So, I have 5 spells to choose here (unless there are some I "must" add to those above) and there are a dozen I find interesting.
My question would be to see if any are "better" than others, some not really useful, and which have higher priority than others?
In other words...   HELP!

* Diagnose   (as a tool for the healing role in a team?  Or not that useful since that is mainly done after a run?)

* Analyze Truth   (to see if people are lying...  or is "everyone" lying all the time!  Not interested in Mind Probe, too invasive re. character concept)
Can this be used with Sustaining Focus to detect lies while doing something else?

* Analyze Device   (is it often one needs to use some object in this way?)
Can this be used with Sustaining Focus to keep on getting bonuses to use while doing something else?

* Detect Magic   (not sure if useful?)
* Analyze Magic   (as noted above, is this spell redundant with Assensing or different?  Worth getting either or both?)

* Spatial Sense   (seems very useful for scouting a place out etc.)
* Catalog   (useful for locating something specific or finding hidden Credsticks?)

* Clairaudience   (these spells seem grouped to me, any more useful than others?)
* Clairvoyance
* Astral Clairvoyance
* Mana Window   (no idea if Mana barriers & Astral Mana barriers are used a lot?)
* Astral Window
Note:  silly question, maybe, but...  no Astral Clairaudience because there is no speech in the Astral?
Also, can these be used with Sustaining Focus to keep on getting seeing/hearing ahead while moving along and/or doing something else?

Gear:   (36 BP = 3 BP left)
Power Focus – Force 4 – 100.000 Nuyen, meaning 20 BP + 4 BP to bind  (24 BP total)
Sustaining Focus – Force 4 – 40.000 Nuyen, meaning 8 BP + 4 BP to bind  (12 BP total)
Note:  Going for a Force 3 Sustaining Focus saves 8 BP (5 from Restricted Gear, 2 for 10.000 Nuyen rebate, and 1 to Bind) but I felt that this Sustaining Focus can be used for various spells:  Reflexes in general of course, but others in certain situations as noted above...
Question:  it seems Force 4 Power Focus is the max' one can start with, was just wondering why...  or could one start with a:
Power Focus – Force 6 – 150.000 Nuyen, meaning 30 BP + 6 BP to bind  (36 BP total)


Leaves 3 BP for purchasing the rest of the gear ("I and I need to get dah good Deepwood, mon!")...

THANK YOU A LOT for your patience in reading all this, and even more if you have spent time in answering me!

UmaroVI

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« Reply #1 on: <02-20-12/0943:40> »
Let me go through and list suggestions/answer questions.

Rastafarianism is a Possession tradition - make sure you know how those work! They are very different from Materialization traditions. Not different-bad, mind you, but still quite different.

Make sure you and your GM are on the same page about what "acting dishonorably" means. Some people play Wise Warrior in such a way that you basically can't be a shadowrunner.

No, putting the max of 200 into attributes is a meme that got started somewhere on Dumpshock, but it's not universally a good idea and I don't think you should. I would actually think about 1 less in Charisma and/or Logic.

More Edge is more better. You don't need a high edge, but it is still good.

Binding is actually very useful for a Possession mage, because even low-force Possession spirits can possess dead people and be enormously effective. I recommend keeping both.

Perception is good. I would definitely have 1. Whether you feel it's worth the points to have 4 is up to you - it's not a waste of points or anything, you just may want something else more.

First Aid 1 is a waste of points. You can only FA a wound once, and so it's not worth being fairly bad rather than really bad at first aid. Also, you have Heal. Drop that, and leave the FA to someone with a better Logic, more first aid, and/or skill enhancers.

Analyze Magic lets you "assense" without Astrally Perceiving. It's not great, though, because you still need Assensing to see WTF is going on when you are Astrally Projecting. I don't recommend Analyze Magic.

Frost doesn't do less DV than Lightning Bolt. The reason to use Frost is (a) it forces Crash tests and (b) Lots of people will have Nonconductivity, because it protects against Stick-n-shock bullets. There's no equivalent for Ice (Insulation helps vs. Cold, not Ice). The test for disrupting stuff with Electric damage is really, really easy for vehicles to make and it will almost never work.

Smoke is kind of bad, largely because Sonic is just better. Replacing Stunball with Soundwave is a reasonable choice, but it's not necessarily better; each has ups and downs.

Diagnose is way too specific to be worth a spell slot.

Analyze Truth is useful; its main sin is being just worse than mind probe. You would need a Detection (rather than Health) focus to sustain it without penalties. You could also do something like have a Spirit of Man do that for you, or just take the -2.

Detect and Analyze Magic are basically just too narrow to be all that useful; just use Assensing normally.

Spatial Sense is good. Catalog is alright. The various Clair*/Window* spells are good too. Wards are actually pretty common because if you don't have wards, mages and spirits can pretty much waltz in and do whatever they want anytime they want, so being able to spy past them is quite handy. Do remember that Mana Window lets you use Clairvoyance past wards, but you can also just use it to Clairvoyance, ie, you don't need both Mana Window and Clairvoyance.

I would recommend going with Stunbolt, Stunball, Frost, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Analyze Truth, Spatial Sense, Clairaudience, Mana Window, Astral Window. I would also see if you can't free up 6 bp for another 2 spells.

If you're going to spend 5 bp for restricted gear, go up to a Force 5 sustaining focus. I would probably just get a Force 3 to start with, though, and pick up a better one later. Remember that sustaining foci are school-specific - you want a Health one for Increase Reflexes. You can't use a Health focus to sustain a Detection spell, so it's less useful than you are thinking.

You can't get over Avail. 20 with Restricted Gear. Power foci are 5xForce avail, so you can get at most force 4 to start.


Pangea

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« Reply #2 on: <02-20-12/1113:02> »
Thank you for your help!

[I would actually think about 1 less in Charisma and/or Logic.]
Thanks for the info’ on spending 200 BP or not, and I’ll reduce both CHA & LOG by 1 and put the freed 20 BP into 2 more Edge for 5 Edge.
Did away with First Aid.
Changed the sustaining Focus to Force 3 (and Health specific), which frees up some BP.

Re. spells, thanks for the correction regarding the number of spells I can learn (I thought it was 2 x Magic, not 2 x Spellcasting!).
Taking two more makes it easier to choose!
Stunbolt, Stunball, Frost – Heal, Increase Reflexes – Clairaudience, Mana Window, Astral Window
Then I’d most probably take 4 out of the following 5:
Spatial Sense, Catalog – Analyze Truth, Mind Probe – Analyze Device
(Analyze Truth is less powerful but “passive”, correct?  You can check for lies without the person knowing vs. Mind Probe where the subject knows you are invading his/her mind?  So both can be useful?)
And is Analyze Device valid in game (enables you to use items/machines?)?

I will read up on Possession vs. Materializtion traditions, as well as check about “acting dishonorably” of  Wise Warrior (and look for an alternate Spirit Mentor, it’s true that clearer flaws are easier to handle!).

That leaves 9 BP for the rest of the Gear (or to raise a point in Skills, maybe?).

re. Perception, it is used more than Assensing?  (if one is at 4 and the other 1, Perception over Assensing?).

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #3 on: <02-20-12/1219:27> »
Personally, I'd say dump your Edge down to minimum and replace those two 10 point negative qualities with Bad Luck. I don't get how so many people can say "oh Edge is so powerful and important". It can be somewhat useful a few times, but it's too limited a resource to be worth spending large amounts of BP on in my opinion.
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UmaroVI

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« Reply #4 on: <02-20-12/1251:55> »
The big thing with Assensing is that if you need to make a hard Assensing check, you can ask a spirit to do it. You can't default on Assensing so you really, really want at least 1, but if you can only afford one of those skills I would go with Perception.

Analyze Device is, in theory, cool. In practice it is kinda iffy because you have to beat the device's OR, and most devices that you care about will have OR 5. So you need a ton of hits to do anything.

If you don't think Mind Probe fits, Analyze Truth is not a bad spell.

I'm not really sold on Catalog. I can imagine situations where it's useful, but it's really, really specific. I'd rather have a utilitarian spell like Levitate that's useful in lots and lots of situations.

Crash_00

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« Reply #5 on: <02-20-12/1257:15> »
The more you put in it, the better it is and the less limited it is (because you can use it more often). I've seen edge save the runners far more often than any other skill, attribute, or resource and I've never seen a player have to burn edge for the hand of god, it's always been on rolls to make the things their good at even better or the things they aren't good at passable.

I've seen many people say its a waste of points on here, but I have yet to see a player sit down at a challenging game with a high edge character and be able to say its a waste afterward. Then again, other than missions, all my games tend to be rather challenging after the initial warm up run.

As for the OP, I'd go with Assensing at 4. You can pop in some contacts with Vision Enhancement to boost your visual perception (+3 bonus) and you'll want be wanting an image link anyway (almost everywhere assumes you can see AR) unless you're going the simmodule route. Likewise, earbuds can get you the same bonus on hearing perception tests with the Audio Enhancement option (altogether both with those three enhancements would only cost about 750¥). You'll also have team mates who will be more likely to boost perception, but won't have access to Assensing.



Captain Karzak

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« Reply #6 on: <02-20-12/1313:20> »
Don't take Bad Luck as a negative quality. Edge is often used to get yourself out of bind, particularly of the life-threatening nature. Why would you want to add a sizeable percentage chance that spending edge could make you even worse off? There are plenty of other negative qualities out there that will inconvenience you without become a direct contributor to your character's death.

The amount you want to spend on edge depends on how often your GM allows it to refresh. If it fully refreshes every game session, then you shouldn't spend very much on it - probably no higher than 3 for most types of characters. The less frequently it refreshes, the higher you should consider pushing it.

I have no idea where the hell this "Frost" element comes from. There is Cold in the core rulebook, and there is Ice in Street Magic. Both are explicitly treated as cold damage, and therefore the Insulation armor upgrade defends against both.

As for how much you should spend on attributes, the full 200 is a good rule of thumb - which of course means there are exceptions. There are a couple reasons why your character is an exception:

(1) Possession traditions offer Stat augmentation on a MASSIVE scale. So your original attribute values are not nearly as important.

(2) Intuition-based traditions don't need as many stats. Basically every character benefits significantly from a high intuition, so if you went Logic, or Charisma-based, you'd still have to buy up intuition. The downside of using Intuition as a drain stat, is that it is fairly difficult to turn into a large number, compared to Logic or Charisma.

I am a huge fan of summoning and binding. I'd urge you to consider pushing both of these skills to 4. You'll want to bind a force 6 spirit of man very quickly so that you have something that can sustain Improved Intuition and Improved Willpower on you (you'll need to include these spells in your grimoire). The major constraint on most mages is not their magic attribute, but rather their ability to mitigate drain. Pushing up your drain pool to 18 dice will do a lot to increase your character's power and endurance.

When looking at your Charisma and Logic, keep this in mind:
Charisma determines the max number of spirits you can have bound. You are definitely going to want this number to be greater than 1.
Logic determines the number of foci you can have active at any one time. Usually it's cheaper just to get a low level [typically rating 3] sustaining foci after character creation and cast increase logic into it if you want to loosen this constraint. So you probably will be okay with a logic of 2 or 3.

As for spells:
Generally it's good to know the increase attribute spells for your drain attributes.
If you know any detection spells, Mindprobe and Detect Life (maybe the extended versions of these if you can handle the drain) should be at the top of your list.
Levitation is an excellent manipulation spell that nearly every group will benefit greatly from.

Regarding Assesnsing:
That's what spirits are for. They are really good at it. Get like 1 rank for yourself and leave any difficult checks (IE most of them) to your high-force summoned spirit.
« Last Edit: <02-20-12/1908:28> by Captain Karzak »

Unahim

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« Reply #7 on: <02-20-12/1317:57> »
The more you put in it, the better it is and the less limited it is (because you can use it more often). I've seen edge save the runners far more often than any other skill, attribute, or resource and I've never seen a player have to burn edge for the hand of god, it's always been on rolls to make the things their good at even better or the things they aren't good at passable.

I've seen many people say its a waste of points on here, but I have yet to see a player sit down at a challenging game with a high edge character and be able to say its a waste afterward. Then again, other than missions, all my games tend to be rather challenging after the initial warm up run.

As for the OP, I'd go with Assensing at 4. You can pop in some contacts with Vision Enhancement to boost your visual perception (+3 bonus) and you'll want be wanting an image link anyway (almost everywhere assumes you can see AR) unless you're going the simmodule route. Likewise, earbuds can get you the same bonus on hearing perception tests with the Audio Enhancement option (altogether both with those three enhancements would only cost about 750¥). You'll also have team mates who will be more likely to boost perception, but won't have access to Assensing.

Thing is, it depends on on the GM a lot. My GM rarely, if ever, recharges our Edge. So after a session or two, even the guys with 4 edge are sitting at 0, alongside of the ones with 1 edge. When everyone does recharge an edge, most us will likely spend it before the next time we get an edge point, so the fact that that one character has 4 edge gets extremely redundant, as he doesn't actually get to use it all that more often than the rest. Sure, he can roll 4 dice on an edge test, but the others can just reroll their misses, which will often beat 4 dice anyway.

Not saying Edge is useless, even in our games, just kinda... low priority for us.

I guess I have the opposite idea of Captain Karzak with regards to this. Our Edge recovers so infrequently(and only 1 point each time) that any points put into it only offer a benefit early on, or, well, I guess you can still burn them, but still, that feels like burning 10bp to me... I'd rather invest in other stuff which make me slightly less likely to kick the can in the first place.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #8 on: <02-20-12/1322:06> »
The more you put in it, the better it is and the less limited it is (because you can use it more often). I've seen edge save the runners far more often than any other skill, attribute, or resource and I've never seen a player have to burn edge for the hand of god, it's always been on rolls to make the things their good at even better or the things they aren't good at passable.

I've seen many people say its a waste of points on here, but I have yet to see a player sit down at a challenging game with a high edge character and be able to say its a waste afterward. Then again, other than missions, all my games tend to be rather challenging after the initial warm up run.

As for the OP, I'd go with Assensing at 4. You can pop in some contacts with Vision Enhancement to boost your visual perception (+3 bonus) and you'll want be wanting an image link anyway (almost everywhere assumes you can see AR) unless you're going the simmodule route. Likewise, earbuds can get you the same bonus on hearing perception tests with the Audio Enhancement option (altogether both with those three enhancements would only cost about 750¥). You'll also have team mates who will be more likely to boost perception, but won't have access to Assensing.

Thing is, it depends on on the GM a lot. My GM rarely, if ever, recharges our Edge. So after a session or two, even the guys with 4 edge are sitting at 0, alongside of the ones with 1 edge. When everyone does recharge an edge, most us will likely spend it before the next time we get an edge point, so the fact that that one character has 4 edge gets extremely redundant, as he doesn't actually get to use it all that more often than the rest. Sure, he can roll 4 dice on an edge test, but the others can just reroll their misses, which will often beat 4 dice anyway.

Not saying Edge is useless, even in our games, just kinda... low priority for us.

I guess I have the opposite idea of Captain Karzak with regards to this. Our Edge recovers so infrequently(and only 1 point each time) that any points put into it only offer a benefit early on, or, well, I guess you can still burn them, but still, that feels like burning 10bp to me... I'd rather invest in other stuff which make me slightly less likely to kick the can in the first place.

And then there's that a good GM shouldn't be activating the Bad Luck on the "burn" uses of it, should the need seriously come down to it.
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Captain Karzak

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« Reply #9 on: <02-20-12/1330:36> »

I guess I have the opposite idea of Captain Karzak with regards to this. Our Edge recovers so infrequently(and only 1 point each time) that any points put into it only offer a benefit early on, or, well, I guess you can still burn them, but still, that feels like burning 10bp to me... I'd rather invest in other stuff which make me slightly less likely to kick the can in the first place.

Yeah but your situation is a complete corner case. I'm mean that's VASTLY slower edge refresh that I've ever heard of in any game anywhere. So yeah, it your situation, the right value for edge is 1, and I hope no one in your group rolled a human because they are extra screwed, and doubtlessly your GM does not care.

But over any reasonable time frame over which GM's will choose to refresh edge (say between 1 per session and once per 3 sessions), in general, the faster edge refreshes, the less of it you need. Conversely, the longer it takes to refresh, the more often you are going to having a critical use for that 4th or 5th point of edge.
« Last Edit: <02-20-12/1332:08> by Captain Karzak »

Crash_00

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« Reply #10 on: <02-20-12/1339:29> »
I've gotta ask, what is the point of even having players take flaws if you aren't going to ever hold them accountable to them? Letting the players walk away from everything because it's the nice thing to do does not mean you're a good GM.

A player that makes a character with bad luck should not be expecting edge to save his ass 100% of the time. He should know well before he gets himself waist deep in it that edge comes back to bite him in the ass 1/6th of the time. Running is a dangerous profession and it's doubly for those unfortunate sods that have lady luck out for them.

As for the edge, I'll occasionally forget, but in my non-missions games I refresh it every other run but my group critically glitches constantly and gets enough against the odds successes (generally if it needs 2/3rds or more of their DP to be a crit success I'll give them one for against the odds if their dice pool is on the low end (10-12)) that they stay full up anyway.

If the GM doesn't let edge refresh, then tank it, but I also recommend letting the GM know when you think you deserve edge too (and I mean really think you deserve it, not just want it). Us GMs have a lot to keep track of and sometimes we forget to hand out points for roleplay, selfless acts, etc. I'm getting slightly better at it, but I'm also running 7th Sea which uses a similar Drama Die system for when people do something awesome, cool, or just flat out impressive.

rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #11 on: <02-21-12/0517:34> »
I have no idea where the hell this "Frost" element comes from. There is Cold in the core rulebook, and there is Ice in Street Magic. Both are explicitly treated as cold damage, and therefore the Insulation armor upgrade defends against both.
Frost is the name of the single-target spell with the element ice. Street Magic p 168 (The area effect version is called blizzard).
You are correct that elemental ice attacks are threated as cold damage as in Street Magic p 164.
Ice is still a cool effect because the forced crash test.

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UmaroVI

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« Reply #12 on: <02-21-12/0654:22> »
Huh, whoops, I missed that clause. Yeah, the forced crash test is the main thing, still.

Lethe

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« Reply #13 on: <02-21-12/0715:27> »
Note:  are Smoke spells any good at all?  Could be funny to have Rastaman casting Ganja-smoke-balls!
Smoke is funny, especially if it fits your character theme. Targets with gas mask are immune though and stun damage makes it useless against vehicles and drones. Also magicians(you) will have more problems than others to target through the smoke. So i tend to discourage from taking it.

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* Diagnose   (as a tool for the healing role in a team?  Or not that useful since that is mainly done after a run?)
Why, no, never used it. Get to a doctor..

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* Analyze Truth   (to see if people are lying...  or is "everyone" lying all the time!  Not interested in Mind Probe, too invasive re. character concept)
Can this be used with Sustaining Focus to detect lies while doing something else?
Yes, seems like a good option if you don't like Mind Probe.

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* Analyze Device   (is it often one needs to use some object in this way?)
Can this be used with Sustaining Focus to keep on getting bonuses to use while doing something else?
I generally dislike spells, that require to beat an OR.  If you have an electronic device, you need at least 4 hits to beat OR and only after that getting a bonus, which still doesn't prevent defaulting modifier and you get a -2 sustaining modifier.. rather bad decision.

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* Detect Magic   (not sure if useful?)
This spell is good for a sustaining focus to warn you, if some magic happens around you. But you could as well have a spirit to look out for that around you. And if you look for something specific, you would use astral perception anyway. Not too good choice as well.

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* Analyze Magic   (as noted above, is this spell redundant with Assensing or different?  Worth getting either or both?)
Thats a limited version of assensing. Assensing can do more. And spirits are generally better in assensing than you are. So just use spirits.

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* Spatial Sense   (seems very useful for scouting a place out etc.)
You could use a radar with image link. But it requires to look in all directions to see hidden stuff, while this spell gives you all in an instant. Good choice.

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* Catalog   (useful for locating something specific or finding hidden Credsticks?)
This could result in really long lists.. and doesn't tell you where the item is... well may depend on GM an how many hits you got. But then it still has to beat an OR. Don't like it.

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* Clairaudience   (these spells seem grouped to me, any more useful than others?)
* Mana Window   (no idea if Mana barriers & Astral Mana barriers are used a lot?)
* Astral Window
Also, can these be used with Sustaining Focus to keep on getting seeing/hearing ahead while moving along and/or doing something else?
All good spells. My favorite is Mana Window. You can move the center of a sustained area spell. Don't know where it says that, but i guess you have to use an action for that.

Other nice detection spells are detect life, detect enemy and detect individual - first and last one should be taken as extended versions.

Pangea

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« Reply #14 on: <02-21-12/0800:17> »
Thank you all very much for your great input!
re. Edge:  I get the different choices, and will see with the GM how things are run in the campaign (refresh etc.).
re. Possession:  I have been reading more about Spirits and Possession, and have to look into more to understand better, but it does seem fun (more Voodoo than Rasta' I guess, so would change the character a bit in that respect).
re. Spells:  again, thanks a lot for the info' on how spells work out in game, which helps me a lot.  I get how some spells (ie. Levitate) are quite useful, but will probably stick to a more RP choice and remain with Detection spells (Detect Life etc.).

Question:  the Clair-audience/voyance spells have a range of T (touch) yet the description is "that the subject can hear distant sounds (see distant scenes) as if physically present at a chosen point within the sensory range of the spell." and "only sounds within the subject’s natural range of hearing".
I am not sure how the Touch range works?  Does that mean the Caster is the source, or that he/she can touch someone else too and have that person perform the spell?
And what is the sensory range of the spell?  Does that mean you "hear" in your normal hearing range, or LOS - but then, why is the range not LOS? - but way better (you can hear people whispering even at a distance) and through barriers (walls etc.).

"The “listening point” may be moved to any other point within range of the spell." <-- this makes me think that it is more LOS than Touch...

In any case, it is not about seeing in really distant places, correct?  Not like Clairvoyance use to see what is going on in a place you know in a distant part of the city, for example?