[Crash_00]

Well a biometric safety modded at the factory would only cost about 100¥ and that's retail price. Considering how many Lone Star would order per precinct, their cost would likely be much, much lower.

The smartgun system would cost 300¥ for the manhunter or 400 for the thunderbolt. It seems like a lot, but considering the training and other equipment the officer is trusted with, it's just a drop in the bucket in the end.

Lone Star losing the Seattle contract wasn't just from tightening. They had the entire Tempo crime wave scraped off on their shoulders (which could have largely been prevented if not for the legally different definitions of traditional drugs and bio-engineered awakened drugs) even though they legally couldn't do anything about it until the late game. There was also Brackhaven to think about, who saw Knight Errant as a more profitable company to contract to since they are a subsidiary of a AAA corp capable of taking on nations if need be.

I would recommend also tossing in some Weapon Watcher software. It's a bit pricey, but it fits if you're already giving the Facial Recognition software.

[farothel]

Well a biometric safety modded at the factory would only cost about 100¥ and that's retail price. Considering how many Lone Star would order per precinct, their cost would likely be much, much lower.

It wouldn't surprise me if they actually made the weapons themselves (own design or under licence) instead of buying them.  They are big enough to be able to do so.

[Critias]

As has already been pointed out, actual corporations are probably going to get a good deal on this stuff, not pay full price.  Also?  Judging from the cops I know, just making the stuff available to them and offering a reasonable discount/payment plan, you'd get guys lining up around the block to get some of this stuff.  Lone Star wouldn't have to pay for the smartlink, they'd just have to let their cops buy 'em, and they'd see quite a few beat cops all geared up and ready to rock. 

Especially using the SR4 rules, where so much of this hardware is readily available that's just as good as the cybernetic versions.  If you're already wearing a helmet, why not get a smartlink and low-light on it, so you can keep up with those tusker punks in the dark?  If you're already getting assigned body armor, who wouldn't get a BioMonitor upgrade (for just ten nuyen a month, automatically deducted from your paycheck for your convenience, partially offset by a discount on your company insurance policy!)?

And, the way the safe target and similar stuff works?  You can bet there's going to be some peer pressure from the other guys on your shift, for everyone to "buy in" and gear up.  You can either shell out a nuyen a day to your payment plan and get that biometic safety and safe target system...or you can get bitched at about it all shift long by your partner, your shift sergeant, and everyone else you work with. 

[CitizenJoe]

Actually, Smartlink (tm) is Ares property so it is unlikely that Ares would offer a big discount to a competing security company when they have both Knight Errant as well as Hard Corps.

My suggestions for the biometrics and cameras only applied to the special weapons, not so much the personal side arms.  I would envision the Thunderbolts being issued with smartlinks and the manhunters with the laser sight being used by the non-cybered cops.

[Bruce]

I would imagine that any relatively inexpensive gear that could possibly save company money and avoid liability would be available/mandatory, whereas gear that merely saved employee lives would be sold to officers.

Example - Lone Star charges recruits for their uniforms, armor, any bio-monitoring, biometrics on guns, etc.  (In real life today, officers only get x amount for uniforms, and anything else is out of pocket.)  But a smartlink and low-light could avoid a costly lawsuit, so it's standard on all Lone Star equipment.

Obviously, what is 'necessary' for the performance of the contract will vary not only from city to city, but possibly from fiscal year.  Uniforms are 2 free a year in some places, and merely reduced cost to officers in others.  A run could be built around breaking into Lone Star local administrative HQ and modifying contractual arrangements for the benefit of some suppliers.  ("What do you mean, I have to buy a replacement uniform!?  This one got torn up by a trog with a combat axe playing "Neil the Orc Barbarian'!  "Sorry sir; this year, all officers must buy any replacement gear out of pocket.  Corporate decision.  Oh, and your bullet allotment has been cut back as well.")

[Critias]

To clarify, my thoughts in this thread apply pretty distinctly to a Lone Star (or Knight Errant, or Wolverine, or whatever) themed game.  When in doubt, I try to shine the spotlight on the PCs.  In a cop game, that means I put a little more thought into how the cops might be equipped.  In a criminal game, it means the average cop is probably going to be under-equipped, because Fuck The Police (tm), or whatever.  I wouldn't make all these other goodies standard-issue for an average Shadowrun campaign...but in a cop game, stopping and thinking about what kind of gear makes sense for them, and how to still make it economically feasible, is a fun way to kill time.

[under_score]

Well a biometric safety modded at the factory would only cost about 100¥ and that's retail price.

Pardon my ignorance, but is this in SR4 or Arsenal or something else?  I'm missing it somehow. 

They had the entire Tempo crime wave scraped off on their shoulders (which could have largely been prevented if not for the legally different definitions of traditional drugs and bio-engineered awakened drugs) even though they legally couldn't do anything about it until the late game. There was also Brackhaven to think about, who saw Knight Errant as a more profitable company to contract to since they are a subsidiary of a AAA corp capable of taking on nations if need be.

I know very little of these things and would love to know more.  Is this in that Seattle:2072 book I haven't read?  My most up to date reading is Runner Havens. 

I would recommend also tossing in some Weapon Watcher software. It's a bit pricey, but it fits if you're already giving the Facial Recognition software.

Interesting.  I may well add this to the list. 

Judging from the cops I know, just making the stuff available to them and offering a reasonable discount/payment plan, you'd get guys lining up around the block to get some of this stuff.  Lone Star wouldn't have to pay for the smartlink, they'd just have to let their cops buy 'em, and they'd see quite a few beat cops all geared up and ready to rock. 

Hmm...yes.  I think I will encourage them to pay for upgrades to their weapons and other gear if they would like to. 

[Crash_00]

The most detailed breakdown of the Tempo scare was in Ghost Cartels, but I know Vice references it also. I don't really know if Seattle 2072 covers it or not. The Brackhaven issues are in 2072, but it's all mostly just seriously hinted at.

Biometric Safety is part of the basic Advanced Safety mod in Arsenal.

[jaellot]

I'm gearing up to do a Lone Star campaign, too. My guys are going to be more into magical crime, and I'm working of case file to let them pick and choose which they want to investigate.

As for money, I'm giving them enough for a Middle lifestyle, plus some to save up. Being legit, they can requisition goods. There is a ton of paperwork, and it's all expected to be used in the line of duty, of course.

I also have tinkered an old idea of Cash for Karma (or vice versa). I'm letting 1 Karma equal 2,000 (if I recall right). It represents overtime or some fortunate windfall that comes their way.

Last thing I'd like to add, concerning all the talk of non-lethal takedown and what not. Police today are armed with hollow point rounds. True, there are tasers, beanbag rounds, and so on. But when push comes to shove, the cops play to win. And by win, I mean you utterly lose. Up that in SR, especially given how Lone Star is described in the sourcebook.

[JustADude]

Last thing I'd like to add, concerning all the talk of non-lethal takedown and what not. Police today are armed with hollow point rounds. True, there are tasers, beanbag rounds, and so on. But when push comes to shove, the cops play to win. And by win, I mean you utterly lose. Up that in SR, especially given how Lone Star is described in the sourcebook.

However, stick'n'shock ammo does stun damage, and is made of pure win. If you don't absolutely, positively need to kill someone it's the way to go, no questions asked.

Since it makes the gun do DV 6S(e), AP (-1/2 vs Impact) it actually improves the DV of anything short of an Assault Rifle, and offers some of the best performance versus armor of any ammo load. Plus, you can also go hot a lot more readily since they're basically long-range tasers and its easier to justify tasing someone than blowing their lungs out all over the wall.

[BRKNdevil]

though if you read some of the comments in the different books, lonestar doesn't seem to care to much about that problem, if i remember right, one poster said that the lonestar's unofficial procedure is "blam, blam, 'pause', blam, blam, blam."
also remember by, i think, 2073 lonestar is out of seattle, is sexist, and pretty much only likes using humans for everything.

[JustADude]

though if you read some of the comments in the different books, lonestar doesn't seem to care to much about that problem, if i remember right, one poster said that the lonestar's unofficial procedure is "blam, blam, 'pause', blam, blam, blam."
also remember by, i think, 2073 lonestar is out of seattle, is sexist, and pretty much only likes using humans for everything.

Oh, yeah, not denying that; I'm just saying that in SR4 going non-lethal isn't a significant detriment to the officer's stopping power in a typical patrol situation anymore.

[under_score]

I'm gearing up to do a Lone Star campaign, too.

Cool beans.  It looks as though we are set to run rather different games in this arena, but I would be most interested to hear how yours turns out. 

also remember by, i think, 2073 lonestar is out of seattle, is sexist, and pretty much only likes using humans for everything.

Well, starting the game in August of 2070, they still have the Seattle contract (but keeping it will be one of the major background elements of the game).  On the other hand, yeah, they're quite male/human oriented.  So far I've only put together one ork NPC (and she just does paperwork for the detectives) and no trolls. 

Also, in case anyone is interested, I've settled on giving my players 350 bp.  I'm also giving them some free bp for contacts.  That combined with the standard issue gear and they aren't that far below normal anymore (and after a few months hard work detectiving, they'll have enough karma to even keep up with low-level shadowrunners). 

[CitizenJoe]

though if you read some of the comments in the different books, lonestar doesn't seem to care to much about that problem, if i remember right, one poster said that the lonestar's unofficial procedure is "blam, blam, 'pause', blam, blam, blam."
also remember by, i think, 2073 lonestar is out of seattle, is sexist, and pretty much only likes using humans for everything.

That NEEDS to be from the perspective of a shadowrunner and not actual policy.  Any police agency that actually works that way would have their contract pulled in a month.  The lawsuits would eat them alive.

[Mirikon]

Unless the ones you were shooting were SINless, 'terrorists', or any number of other convenient excuses.