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Total new to Shadowrun,what should I think about.

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Ted Fast

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« on: <03-21-12/2320:36> »
Hi.

I'm a newcomer to Shadowrun but is seems like a really cool game so I am planing on starting up a campaign soon-ish.

I have just tried my hand at making a charter using only the core book ( I also own Augmentations, Arsenal and Street Magic but I didn't want to overwhelm myself..)
and I was wondering if someone was willing to take a look at my character and see I have made any big mistakes or just give me some feed-back on him.

Any and all tips for a noob trying to make a competent character would be very appreciated.

The character I made is generic street samurai that should (hopefully) be able to both take punishment and dish it out.

== Info ==
Street Name: Ziggy,
Name: Sigmund Oxbaner
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: -1
Public Awareness: 0
Orc Male Age 25
Height 2.08M Weight 143Kg
Composure: 0
Judge Intentions: 0
Lift/Carry: 0 (0 kg/0 kg)
Memory: 0
Nuyen: 500
Metahuman ability: Low-Light Vision

== Attributes ==
BOD: 7
AGI: 5 (7 )
REA: 4 (6)
STR: 6 (8)
CHA: 1
INT: 4
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
MAG: -

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 0,3
Initiative: 8 (10)
IP: 1 (3)
Physical Damage Boxes:     12
Stun Damage Boxes:         10


== Active Skills ==
Automatics            : 6 [Assult Rifles]                    Pool: 12 (14)   
Armorer          : 3 [Weapon Accessories]   Pool: 6
Blades                    : 4 [Axes]                             Pool: 9 (11)
Climbing                : 3                                             Pool: 9 (11)
Dodge                     : 3                                            Pool: 7 (9)
First Aid          : 3                    Pool: 6
Infiltration               : 3                                             Pool: 8 (10)
Perception             : 3                                             Pool: 7
Running                 : 3                                             Pool: 9 (11)

== Knowledge Skills ==
European Military History   : 4                      Pool: 7
Asatro Theology                   : 3                      Pool: 6
Medieval heraldry              : 2                      Pool: 5

Swedish                    : N
Or'zet             : 5
English                      : 4
Arabic             : 3   

== Contacts ==
Greg Smith      Fixer  (3, 3)
'Choppy' Lisa   Street Doc  (3, 3)

== Qualities ==
Toughness
High Pain Tolerance x 3

Sever allergy to gold
Scorched
Incompetent Archery
Incompetent Leadership


== Cyberware/Bioware ==             Essence
Wired Reflexes Rank 2 Alphaware          2,4      
Dermal Plating Rank 2 Alphaware          0,8
Muscle Replacement Rank 2 Alphaware   2,4
Reflex Recorder [Automatic]            0,1

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket            8/6

Armor Jacket with Helmet   9/8

== Weapons ==
Combat Axe
   Reach: 2 DV: 8P   AP: -1
Unarmed Attack
   Reach: - DV: 4S   AP: -

Ares Alpha   Barrel-mod: Gas-Vent 3 Top-mod: Smartgun System
   DV: 6P   AP: -1  MODE: SA/BF/FA   RC: 6      AMMO 42(c)
EX-explosive round
   DV: 7P    AP: -2
Ammo: 10 clips   regular ammo, 2 clips EX-Explosive Rounds

Ceska Black Scorpion Barrel-mod: Gas-Vent 3 Top-mod: Smartgun System
   DV: 4P   AP: -  MODE: SA/BF     RC: 4(5)   AMMO 35(c)
Stick-n-Shock
   DV:6S(e) AP: -half
Ammo: 10 clips   regular ammo, 2 clips Stick-n-Shock
   
== Commlink ==
Commlink (Reponse 3,Signal 4,Firewall 3,System 3)
Commlink Accessories: AR Gloves, Subvocal Microphone, Electronic Paper


== Gear ==
Fake Sin Rank 3
Cred Stick
Contact Lenses Rank 3
 Flare Compensation
 Image Link
 Smartlink
Docwagon Basic for 1 year
Tool Kit
Medkit Rank 6
Respirator Rank 6
Tranq Patch Rank 6
Long Haul

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #1 on: <03-21-12/2331:47> »
If you reduce your Strength by 1, your melee attacks will do the same damage since that rounds up. That should enable you to not have a 1 Charisma--and thus avoid the GM aggro that can spawn.
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UmaroVI

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« Reply #2 on: <03-21-12/2343:43> »
I'll see if I can take a more specific look later, but if you're new to SR, you might want to take a look at the characters in my sig for some examples.

rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #3 on: <03-22-12/0340:39> »
You need Augmentation for cyberware and bioware coolness.
You need Arsenal to mod your weapons efficiently and for armor.

Toughness isn’t worth the point. You are better of with +1 Body (toughness is first worth it once you has reach your toughness maximum).

Karma efficient you should start with one skill at 6 and other skills at 4 and the skills you won’t do without but can’t afford at 4 get them at 1.
The same for specialities – they are super cheap to grab for karma after start.

Remember to think about getting skills for your high attributes and non for your low attributes because those will not do you much good anyway. In example drop First Aid and just use the Rating 6 Med kit instead.

I don’t think Dermal Plating is worth the essence loss and the money. They are not that great. And get some more bioware. The essence loss from bioware is only half because you have a lot of cyberware.

You should always use Form Fitting Body Armor from Arsenal (cost 1600 nuyen). They can be combined with other sets of armor and gives 6/2 armor for only 3/1 encumbrance.

You should get a really cheap commlink and OS for public use. And then get a few programs for your main commlink (without programs it really can’t do much).

You could get even more sensory bonuses with a pair of glasses with other vision enchantments and you should get some ear buds to.

And definitely look at Umaro’s archtypes. He is really good at making characters.

Welcome to the game and have fun.

Regards
Rasmus
Deplore killings made in the name of religion. Can't it just be for fun?

UmaroVI

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« Reply #4 on: <03-22-12/0612:58> »
In addition to what rasmusnicolaj said,

High Pain Tolerance is also really bad. It negates 1 point of penalties, sometimes. For 15 points. Whee.

Dermal Plating is really bad - it just costs way too much for the small armor bonus it gives you.

Muscle Replacement Alphaware is silly - just get the Muscle Toner and Muscle Augmentation bioware.

I don't think Alphaware Wired Reflexes are a good idea - just get regular ones. If you can afford a really expensive set of initiative enhancers, get Move By Wire 2 (Augmentation), but that requires the Restricted Gear quality.

Reaction Enhancers: you want them.

 

Mason

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« Reply #5 on: <03-22-12/0855:40> »
Looks good. Used Chummer, huh? Yeah, the Alphaware isn't really needed at chargen, as the costs are prohibitive. You could probably tone his ware down a bit. Alternatively, look into Bio-compatibility (cyberware) from Augmentation, which cuts all cyber Essence costs by 10% for 5 or 10 BP (can't remember which).

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #6 on: <03-22-12/0912:42> »
From a chemistry background, your choice of allergy makes my brain hurt.  Ya, I know, MAGIC!  But its just that gold is so inert and nigh impossible to get it to react with anything that I can't figure out how you can be allergic to it.

Tsuzua

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« Reply #7 on: <03-22-12/1232:42> »
From a chemistry background, your choice of allergy makes my brain hurt.  Ya, I know, MAGIC!  But its just that gold is so inert and nigh impossible to get it to react with anything that I can't figure out how you can be allergic to it.
Pretty much it's RAR MAGIC!  Heck back in the 1st edition days, metahumans got a randomly determined allergy and gold was one of the possible substances, just like wood, silver, or sunlight. 

As for the characters, let me start by saying that you have a good start.  He's competent at being a street samurai and would take him over a sample character any day.  But let's see if we can make him better.  I will only look at the core book for now.

First off, let's look at your skills.  You have a bunch of skills at 3.  As rasmusnicolj said, the most karma efficient way is to have skills at 4.  So I would move your skills around.  I would drop Climbing, Dodge, and Running.  I would buy the Athletics Group at 1.  This saves you 24BP.  Instead of dodge, you'll use gymnastics (not that I recommend active defenses).  As for climbing and running, there's ware that helps with that.  You also are better at swimming for what that's worth.

With the 24BP, I'll raise your infilitration and perception to 4, leaving you with 16BP spare.  Both are very handy skills.  You could drop both and grab the Stealth group at 4 instead.  You'll need to buy up perception during play, but you'll also be okay at disguise and shadowing (especially if you buy up your Int).

Now you're at a crossroads when it comes to armorer and first aid.  You're good enough to be meh at this stuff.  While you can put a smartlink on a gun by yourself, you don't need armorer for much else in core.  With Arsenal, you have gun mod options which you are okay or very meh at depending on how you do extended tests.  However you could also just pay someone to do this stuff.  As for first aid, you can roll 12 dice (with medkit) which isn't that much better than the 9 you'll be rolling without any skill. 

So you have two options.  One is to drop the armorer and first aid skills, lower your logic to 2 (you can go down to 1) and move the 34 BP elsewhere.  You'll need people to mod your guns and you'll be better off handing your med kit to someone else, but that's some deep point savings.  If you know your team has a high logic type, I would recommend going this route.  The logic guy can handle the modding and first aiding.  In a pinch, you can first aid with 8 dice (likely spend a point of edge if you can).

The other option is to be the logic type and make the most of it.  I would consider this if no one else is a logic character or you expect to be alone a lot.  Being an ork stinks for logic, but the point savings elsewhere are worth the effective -1 logic.  Augmentation has a lot of options to help you out if you go this route.

Since you'll be sneaking around a lot, being able to bypass maglocks is really really handy.  Therefore, the hardware skill can pay off.  Buy up your logic to 4 and get hardware 4.  Buy some cerebral boosters 2 and you now have a 10 dice hardware check.  That'll cover most maglocks and give you a decent chance at anti-tamper systems.  After that, buy up your first aid to 4*.  That will cost you 30BP from what you have now.  I'll buy down armorer to 1 to save on points.  Depending on how much you have to spare, you might want to pick up mechanics so you can be good at modding cars, but that can also wait for karma.

Speaking of karma, it is usually better to buy specializations in play rather than at creation.  Since you're mundane, spending karma for specialization is a good idea since you don't have to save for initiation like awakened or technomacners.  You'll rather have the 6BP now than 6 karma later.  I would recommend grabbing hardware (maglocks), first aid (combat wounds), armorer (weapon modification) if you go the logic path.

As for attributes, they are mostly fine.  I would lower your strength to 5 as All4BigGuns points out.  I would move that point into Int or Logic (if you're going the logic route).  If you're dropping logic instead, I'll also consider increasing reaction to 5 as well.  Willpower 3 is acceptable though I wish there was a way to get it to 5 without too much dumpstating but I don't think there is. 

I would drop toughness and pain resistance.  Pain don't hurt in SR4.  As for toughness, you're going to be fairly tough anyways.  I'll move the 25 BP elsewhere.

Now it's time for your gear.  Convert whatever spare BP you have from the work above into cash.  If you need more cash, I'll see what else can be cut.  I think you can spend the full 250,000Y of starting nuyen even with just the core books.

You have the right idea that as a mundane, the state of your soul doesn't matter and you can walk around with essence of .3.  However, I'll find ways to make your soul stretch further.  Muscle replacement uses up to much essence for its cost.  I would instead get muscle toner 2 and muscle augmentation 2 for 30,000Y (net cost: 10000Y).  Then I'll remove your dermal plating for now and downgrade your wired reflexes to basic grade.  This give you a total savings of 42000Y and an essence of 2.55.  Eventually you'll want to buy muscle toner 4 and muscle augmentation 4.

I would then get a Synthacardium 3 for 30,000Y.  Your new superheart gives you +3 to your athletics skills so overall you're just as skilled in those fields as before but you saved 18BP and are good at swimming.  I'll also grab reaction enhancers 2 for 20000Y. That'll put you at a 8 reaction which is pretty keen.  You'll now be at 1.8 essence.

If you're going the logic route, you'll want to buy cerebral boosters 2.  Other that, you can pick up nifty ware.  Ones that are nice are platelet factories, enhanced articulation, or dermal plating.

As for weapons, you're right that the Alpha is the best gun.  I'm not sure how you're getting 6 RC though.  With gas vent 3 + innate 2, you should have 5.  Does Chummer use the strength adds to recoil compensation rule by default?  Either way, be sure to add a shock pad for an additional 1 point of RC. 

As for your concealable backup, the Black Scorpion is fine.  I like the TMP more since full-auto wide bursts are sometimes handy.  You might want to look into the HK-227X since it has restricted legality suppressed fire.  That or get a sound suppressed Alpha for when you need to be quiet. 

Now for melee, things get more interesting.  Right now, you're going with the blades approach.  I would be sure to get a knife or some other sort of concealed bladed weapon.  The reason why is that if you have a blade out, you can use your blade skill in melee defensive tests.  That saves you the need to have a dodge skill (and one of the reasons I suggested dropping it earlier).   You might also want to consider getting a spur installed.  It's like having a sword on command.  However its illegality makes it a debatable choice. 

You could also go the Unarmed route.  Being unarmed means you'll always have unarmed added to your melee defense.  There's also some good unarmed options.  One is to use a shock glove.  That doesn't play to your strength score however.  You can also get bone lacing and have your unbreakable bones do extra damage.  Sadly it's also forbidden legality.  Either way is fine, but I thought you might want to know your options.

In a later post, I'll discuss what in Augmentation and Arsenal you should get or consider.  There's some gems in both books.  Overall, Augmentation has some ways to make you tougher and helps a lot if you're going the logic path.  Arsenal will make you much tougher stackable armor and deadly due to better recoil compensation options.

ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #8 on: <03-22-12/1502:31> »
From a chemistry background, your choice of allergy makes my brain hurt.  Ya, I know, MAGIC!  But its just that gold is so inert and nigh impossible to get it to react with anything that I can't figure out how you can be allergic to it.

Actually it's a fairly common real world allergy. None of my family can wear gold piercings-the hole gets inflamed and leaky within a day, at most. I thought I was immune in college and picked up a gold brow ring. Still have a nasty scar from it, and I know others with the same issue. You do mostly find it only as an issue with piercings, though

rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #9 on: <03-22-12/1516:22> »
I think normal gold allergy comes from allergy to nickel and other stuff in the gold jewelry, but in a magic setting I think gold is a fine allergy.

Rasmus
Deplore killings made in the name of religion. Can't it just be for fun?

Tsuzua

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« Reply #10 on: <03-22-12/1523:17> »
Actually it's a fairly common real world allergy. None of my family can wear gold piercings-the hole gets inflamed and leaky within a day, at most. I thought I was immune in college and picked up a gold brow ring. Still have a nasty scar from it, and I know others with the same issue. You do mostly find it only as an issue with piercings, though
I always assumed real world gold allergies were just nickel allergies where one was reacting to the nickel commonly found in the gold alloys used in jewelry.  However doing some research, articles like this refer to allergic reaction to gold itself.

Ted Fast

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« Reply #11 on: <03-22-12/1628:36> »
Thank you all for the insightful posts, you guys really gave me somethings to think about. This has been a real learning experience.   ;)
I am going to take all your advise and remake old Ziggy using Arsenal and Augmentation.

I also noticed that I made quite a bit of typos and other mistakes in the text e.g. Sigmund did have a knife but I forgot to add it to the post,
but there was nothing major expert that he had High Pain threshold Rank 3 insted of 1.

I was using the strength-as-RC rule because I will use it when I run a campaign, I see that I should have mention this in my first post.

I will be posting the new and improved Ziggy when I'm done with him.

From a chemistry background, your choice of allergy makes my brain hurt.  Ya, I know, MAGIC!  But its just that gold is so inert and nigh impossible to get it to react with anything that I can't figure out how you can be allergic to it.

Actually it's a fairly common real world allergy. None of my family can wear gold piercings-the hole gets inflamed and leaky within a day, at most. I thought I was immune in college and picked up a gold brow ring. Still have a nasty scar from it, and I know others with the same issue. You do mostly find it only as an issue with piercings, though
Bullets are a kind of piercings right? So Ziggy best watch out.  ;)

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #12 on: <03-22-12/2031:39> »
I was reminded of something by Tsuzua's post. His mention of Dermal Plating isn't bad, but personally I prefer Dermal Sheath. Sure it takes Restricted Gear to get rating 3, but do that and you can have Chameleon Modification on it as well.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #13 on: <03-22-12/2332:01> »
How heavily are you considering the logic sidejob aspect?  I want to know just so I know if I should talk about it more or not. 

Ted Fast

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« Reply #14 on: <03-23-12/0633:56> »
I was reminded of something by Tsuzua's post. His mention of Dermal Plating isn't bad, but personally I prefer Dermal Sheath. Sure it takes Restricted Gear to get rating 3, but do that and you can have Chameleon Modification on it as well.
Yeah Dermal sheath 3 looks really useful but I have to ask, in what book can i find the Restricted Gear quality?

How heavily are you considering the logic sidejob aspect?  I want to know just so I know if I should talk about it more or not. 
It seems kind of useful but I worry that the character would be spreading itself to thin. So no need post more info but thanks for the stuff you mention, I'm sure it will come in handy some time.

Also a more general question, is having 3 initiative passes right our of the chargen to much or should I try and keep it at that level?