[Nycidian Grey]

Name: Elden Pillai
Alias: Jaggananth
Race: Orc
Sex: Male
Nationality: ? Ex Ares ?
Lifestyle: Middle(13)
Karma Spent: 0
Physical Description: Younger middle aged orc (early 30's), 1.85 meters(6'1") tall. Hes is not very muscular but he is in very good health and agile. He has typical east Indian features distorted somewhat by his orc features with dark brown eyes and a shaved head. While working he wears a black great coat over Slacks and a neutral darker color sweater. If Hes trying to impress he will have his head painted with a mandala (nanite trode paste), other wise he will where a normal trode underneath a beanie.
Personality/background Elden was raised in a corporate family his father employed by Knight Errant. He grew up idolizing Ares Firewatch and when got old enough he got hired on with Knight Errant just like his father. Unfortunately, while he showed some promise his temper caused him to wash out. Not one to give up, he chose to go his own and focus on his combat skills, going so far as too find the rare freelance instructors in Firefight and Krav Maga. Recently he has started hiring himself out as a body guard.

Attributes

Body	Agility	Reaction	Strength
5	5(6)	5	3
Charisma	Intuition	Logic	Willpower
3	5	2	5
Edge	Magic/Resonance	Essence	Initiative
1	6	6	10(12)

Positive Qualities
Adept
Ambidextrous
Martial Arts 3 (Krav Maga, Firewatch, -3 melee in ranged modifier)
Path of the Warrior
Negative Qualities
Records on File(Ares)
SINner(Ares)
Combat Monster
Vindictive

Active Skills

Pistols (Semi-Automatics)	6
Clubs (Parrying)	4
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike)	2
Armorer (Firearms)	1
Intimidation	3

Knowledge Skills ( [Logic + Intuition] x 3 free points)

Security Procedures	5
Current Events	2
Security Design	3
Corporate Politics	3
Area Knowledge	3
Security Companies	3
Ares Macrotechnology	2

Language Skills

English	N
Japanese(spoken)	2

Adept Powers

Power	Cost	Notes
Improved Ability : Firearms (Level 3)	1.125	*.75 Path of Warrior
Improved Reflexes (level 2)	1.875	*.75 Path of Warrior
Mystic Armor (level 5)	1.875	*.75 Path of Warrior
Improved Physical Attribute: Agility (Level 1)	.75

Maneuvers
MultiStrike
Herding
Two Weapon Style
Evasion
Watchful Guard
Disarm

Gear (90,000¥)

Ruger Thunderbolt	x2	750¥
	W/ Integral Smartlink	400¥
	Personalized Grip	100¥
	Pilot Upgrade (4)	4000¥
	Voice Activation/Response	50¥
	Melee Hardening	300¥
	Safe Target System	200¥
	Gait Analysis Software (6)	3000¥
	Targeting [Ruger Thunderbolt] Software (6)	3000¥
	Clearsight Software (6)	3000¥
	Facial Recognition Software (6)	3000¥
	SkinLink	50¥
	Custom Look (2)	1000¥
Mortimer Greatcoat		3000¥
	Kevlar Threading	100¥
SecureTech PPP System	Forearm Guaards	200¥
SecureTech PPP System	Leg and arm casings	350¥
SecureTech PPP System	Vitals Protector	200¥
SecureTech PPP System	Shin Guards	150¥
Concealed Holster		75¥
Concealed Holster		75¥
xtra Clip (10)		40¥
	Silver [50]	1250¥
	Ex-exlposive[300]	3000¥
	Capsule Rounds [50]	150¥
Sound Suppresser (External)		300¥
Sound Suppresser (External)		300¥
Tacsoft (2)		6000¥
Contact Lenses(3)		150¥
	Image Link	25¥
	Smartlink	500¥
	Flare Compensation	50¥
Goggles (2)		100¥
	Ultrasound	1000¥
	Vision Enhancement (3)	300¥
Earbuds (2)		20¥
	Spatial Recognizer	100¥
	Audio Enhancement (3)	300¥
Transys Avalon		5000¥
Iris Orb		1000¥
	AR Gloves	250¥
	Biometric Reader	200¥
	Biometric Reader	200¥
x10	Nano Paste Trodes	1000¥
	Skin Link	50¥
	Sub-vocal Microphone	50¥
	Trodes	50¥
	IC (3)	3000¥
	Armor(3)	1500¥
	Blackout(3)	1500¥
	Medic(3)	1500¥
Fake Sin(4)		4000¥
Fake Lisence Gun (4)		400¥
Fake Lisence Concealed (4)		400¥
Armorer Kit		500¥
Survival Kit		100¥
GPS		200¥
Respirator (6)		150¥

Vehicles
Thundercloud Contrail (Pimped Out [2], Gyro stabilized)

Handling	Accel	Speed	Pilot	Body	Armor	Sensor	Availability	Cost
3	20/40	180	1	6	6	1	--	9800¥

Contacts Contact C/L Club Owner 3/2 Mechanic 2/3 Build Point totals:  400 = 400 + 35 - 35 A few notes. Yes the guns are a bit crazy, because the guns can't actually move on their own the pilot seems silly. In the rules if the guns are pointed towards an enemy they can shoot themselves. Since most of the time the offhand gun will be being used for full defense then the gamemaster can, if he chooses, have that gun's pilot shoot at any enemies that happen to get put in front of it.  And besides semi autonomous guns just kinda sound cool. The picture above is what both guns look like, his motorcycle is a similar motif. I would have created the motorcycle as well but the gun was difficult enough and I think it gives you an idea of the style. Feel free to give suggestions or tell me if I missed something major.

[Makki]

he most likely washed out because of his below average attributes and lack of any useful skills (First Aid, Social, Outdoors, Technical) skill. What I mean is, SR4 chargen does not allow for building special forces types. You need all 4s/5s to be even considered for a special forces unit. And I see Firefight as a group of guys with all 5s and 6s, probably 7 in their speciality. You don't get recruted for Firefight unless you're the best of the best. I read somewhere, Awakened need to be at least Initiate Grade 3 to be considered useful.
For more Information, read the wikipedia entry for Delta Force. Or the books. Or watch "The Unit".

If you want to be realistic, think of another background story.

[Nycidian Grey]

Background Changed.

[UmaroVI]

What are your Improved Abilities in? Remember the maximum augmented skill is 1.5x the base skill.

You can't have 6 in two skills, you can at most have 6 in one and 4 in the other.

Your Martial Arts are good, but some of your manuevers are sketchy.

-Setup and Throw are both bad.
-Technically, you can't TWS with your fists. You can wear Shock Gloves or Hardliner Gloves and use it, though, so you may need to buy a pair. Your melee damage is way too low to hurt anyone without Shock Gloves, so you probably want them anyways. Alternatively, you could switch to Clubs and use your guns. If you do this, you want Off-Hand Training.
-Multistrike is kind of iffy.

2 Willpower is kind of asking for it.

Like all unaugmented adepts, you would be better off having a little bit of bioware unless it is for stylistic reasons.

Right now, you are paying 10 bp to be human. Consider being an ork instead unless human is purely for stylistic reasons.

[Nycidian Grey]

Thanks for the input some changes are up.

However:

Your Martial Arts are good, but some of your manuevers are sketchy.

-Setup and Throw are both bad.
-Technically, you can't TWS with your fists. You can wear Shock Gloves or Hardliner Gloves and use it, though, so you may need to buy a pair. Your melee damage is way too low to hurt anyone without Shock Gloves, so you probably want them anyways. Alternatively, you could switch to Clubs and use your guns. If you do this, you want Off-Hand Training.
-Multistrike is kind of iffy.

I think your not understanding what the martial art firefight is, with firefigth you use your guns as a martial art i.e. you can use any maneuver that doesn't specifically say for melee combat with shooting.

I might change throw, but setup with firearms is really good. You can use a BF simple action to setup and then use another BF with all your previous successes as extra dice meaning you only get reduced once for armor instead of twice. Its not real useful to use against low armor targets but high armor targets it might let you do considerably more damage.

TWS, you use this with your guns. My unarmed skill is for defense not in general offense.

Multistrike is only there for mostly flavor (firefight being about using two pistols) and the off chance I do shoot two different targets.

[UmaroVI]

Setup is terrible. Shooting people twice is better than shooting them once with a tiny bonus.

Reread Two-Weapon Style.

A character using this maneuver has trained to wield a second melee weapon in his off hand.

[Makki]

a gun is a range 0 club. If you have the Clubs skill, you can parry with your gun.

[UmaroVI]

Yes, you can use it as a club - TWS would then let you make a normal attack with one pistol as a melee weapon, while parrying with the other pistol. It doesn't let you shoot people while full defending.

[Nycidian Grey]

Setup is terrible. Shooting people twice is better than shooting them once with a tiny bonus.

Reread Two-Weapon Style.

A character using this maneuver has trained to wield a second melee weapon in his off hand.

I still think against a high armor target set up is very good. I'll agree to disagree.

As for TWS I think the wording of the entire description is somewhat nebulous about the attacking weapon.

 

A character using this maneuver has trained to wield a second melee weapon in his of hand. In order to use two weapons, each the character may choose to apply the Full Defense option using only one of these weapons, attacking with the other weapon as normal (and without sacrificing an action). The defense or attack action with the off-hand weapon suffers the standard –2 of -hand  weapon modifier.

This stating "a second melee weapon" could mean that the weapon both must be melee or it could mean the second weapon must be melee. Notice while it states directly that the defending weapon must be melee it never states the attacking one must be, leading me to believe it is the second interpretation .  Since I specifically Melee hardened the pistols to defend obviously I can defend with one and considering Firefight is about two fisting pistols I would ask the GM to allow it.

[UmaroVI]

Well, if you can get that one past your GM, have fun with it.

What sort of Reaction, Body, and Armor values are you seeing yourself wanting to use Set-up against? Maybe we're using different notions of "high armor target," here.

[Leticron]

That weapon is seriously going to break your fingers.

Apart from that, where do you get the impression that "a second melee weapon" leaves room for interpretation?
"A second injured soldier" (same wording, same use of words) also implies, that both soldiers are inured, doesn't it?
"A second female dog" -> 2 female dogs.
"A second daring theft" -> both thefts were daring.
Etc.

[Nycidian Grey]

What sort of Reaction, Body, and Armor values are you seeing yourself wanting to use Set-up against? Maybe we're using different notions of "high armor target," here.

Its possible I don't understand how the combat phase is played out but this is what I understand (below done with this character in normal combat in melee range, unwounded self vs Orc Adept with Militarty Heavy armor 4 helmet /and 5 points mystic armor, 9 body, 6 reaction)
Pistols+Agility+ modifiers(smartlink,pointblank, tacnet,In melee,recoil), and averaging 1/3 hits always rounded up.
11+6+2+2+2-0-0= 23

Without set up
BF 1
Attack
23/3 = 8
Defense
[no dodge]
6/3 = 2
8 - 2 = 6
6 + 3(BF) + 6(ex rounds) = 15
23 Ballistic Armor -2 = 21
Soak
21 + 9 = 30
30/3 = 10
15-10= 5DV

BF 2
Attack
Since its average it again is:
14-10= 5DV
Total of 10DV average in two BF's


With setup
BF 1 Setup
Attack
23/3 = 8

BF 2
Attack
31 / 3 = 11
Defense
[no dodge]
6 / 3 = 2
11 - 2 = 9
9 + 3(BF) + 6(ex rounds) = 18
23 Ballistic Armor -2 = 21
Soak
21 + 9 = 30
30/3 =10
19-10 = 9DV average in setup and one BF.
Alright helps if i know the rules. It looks like until armor and body gets past these levels setup is useless Mathematically. It still could be better but guessing you would need to be against around 35-40 total armor + body before setup is useful. To bad I like the concept

*Edited to fix math again

[Nycidian Grey]

Apart from that, where do you get the impression that "a second melee weapon" leaves room for interpretation?
"A second injured soldier" (same wording, same use of words) also implies, that both soldiers are inured, doesn't it?
"A second female dog" -> 2 female dogs.
"A second daring theft" -> both thefts were daring.
Etc.

Because English is unfortunately vague at times on what part of a sentence is connected to another which allows flexibility but can lead to haziness.


"A bitch just got in the trash, then a second male dog showed up and chased it away." In this case the second clearly relates to dogs and not gender but if I stated "A second male dog showed up and chased it away," it would not be so clear.

More examples.

"John a starting thief originally committed shoplifting but then got much bolder by committing a second daring theft"

"Sara though lost was not injured when she encountered a second injured soldier."

[Leticron]

I was about to write how your examples were totally different types of sentences when it occurred to me that...
All of my examples were completely different from "second melee weapon" and of no use.
My apologies for that. I was in a hurry and should have thought about it for a second.
Of course the usage of two adjectives can be vague and lead to misunderstandings, especially when preceded by conjunctions or adverbs .
Melee however is a noun and neither an adverb nor an adjective and to my knowledge cannot be used in such fashion (unlike female for example).
So if I'm not wrong on that, [melee weapon] ends up being a double word and should read "second [melee weapon]" with "melee weapon" being military language for "close-quarters weapon".
That leaves us with a simple declarative sentence (with 2 defining clauses):
"A character (the subject) using this maneuver (defining clause) has trained to wield (predicate) a second (adjective) melee weapon (object) in his off hand (2nd defining clause)".
There is not much room for interpretation left... but then again i screwed up my examples, so maybe I am missing something.

Also, sorry if i sound a little conceited, it's not my intention to take anything away from you. If your GM is fine with it, just house rule it.

So far, L.

Btw. Did you houserule dice hits? In SR4 only 5+ is a hit. Your examples seem to count 4+ as hits, which would be he cinematic setting (it's somewhere in the core rule book under optional rules).

[JustADude]

Melee however is a noun and neither an adverb nor an adjective and to my knowledge cannot be used in such fashion (unlike female for example).

Actually, an adjective is simply a word used to describe a word, and most nouns can become adjectives the same way verbs can become adverbs. Unless something is hypenated (double-click), or a compound word (rainbow) it is always an adjective + a noun.

In this case we have "weapon". What kind of weapon? A "_melee_ weapon". Same thing as saying you have a "car". What kind of car? A "_red_ car".

Besides, there are at least two weapons (the Jupiter Shockclub and the Defiance EX Shocker) that state they're equipped to be used as both a melee weapon and a ranged weapon, and can be used as either without having to "improvise" with them. Makes very little sense to me that you'd lose your ability to defend yourself with the stunner in your off-hand just because you pulled the trigger on the other one.