[Moral Wiz]

Ok, firstly, hello all. Long time SR fan, fist time poster, and I've got a question I can't find an answer to in my books

I've got a concept for a character, a paranormal in Seattle who got trapped there through loss of her SIN. But... is that possible? On the surface, it looks like it might be worth the time of some thugs to mug someone for their commlink and account, (plus paras aren't good with tech as a rule) but there are two issues between this and what I was thinking

1; Would the muggers be able to flat out change the SiN? If you could alter an existing SiN so it registers for you, it'd be easier than creating a SiN from scratch, no?
2;; Could someone loosing their commlink just head to an embassy and say 'Hey, I've lost my SIN, can I have it reissued?'

[Mirikon]

It's called Identity Theft. Basically, that's what getting a fake SIN is.

[Moral Wiz]

Hmm... Ok. That works nicely. (and fits with what I had in mind)   Thanks for the prompt reply.!

But Question 2? Or is that covered by question 1? (The authorities just ignore you)

[Angelone]

That is an excellent question, your commlink broadcasts your SIN so at least some of the information has to be on it. I honestly don't know about getting one reissued. Good luck even making it to the embassy without a a SIN.

[Moral Wiz]

@Angelone; It might just be me, but your first words made me think of Ask That Guy's catchphrase. That's a compliment, at least IMO.

Thanks for the compliment. It's an interesting point to me, and; the books are a little contradictory on how harsh the authorities are about SINs in public areas, but getting into an Embassy, even officially, is never easy. I can see it being a battle for someone SiNless, especially a Parahuman. (Pixie, FTR, so the only Embassy she can go with is the French... and there isn't one in Seattle )

Still, it's an interesting point. If your SiN is stolen, and then 'Updated', can the thief just get away with anything under that SiN? I guess with a commlink and an established life in the area, you could lodge a complaint with more local authorities. In Seattle, either your local Corp office, KE, or the Metroplex Administration. If gone for a while, someone in another country could do so on your behalf. But if you're a traveller, with no known relatives.. (and a meta/para, and thus going to find it hard to deal with the authorities)

Plus, with no commlink, you have no money, and can not get a commlink to contact others, correct? (At least, not easily)

[Angelone]

Yes, No commlink no money unless you happen to have some cash on you which the mugger(s) didn't take for some reason.

The more I think about it the scarier it gets, your entire life on something about the size of a smartphone. Your car, your apartment, you ID, all your information, and your most reliable way of getting help, gone all of it, just like that.

Without that little magic box you basically don't exist. If and when you finally get to help they laugh at you and call you a liar because "you" are in a McHugh's and just ordered a number 8.

[PeterSmith]

Considering how easy people lose things I'd be inclined to believe there's a way in the world of Shadowrun to get that data back in relative short order.

[JustADude]

Without that little magic box you basically don't exist. If and when you finally get to help they laugh at you and call you a liar because "you" are in a McHugh's and just ordered a number 8.

Considering how easy people lose things I'd be inclined to believe there's a way in the world of Shadowrun to get that data back in relative short order.

Actually, I've always understood that a SIN is more like your Social Security Number + Driver's License.

You have the number, itself, accompanied with the digital equivalent of a photo ID that provides some degree of veracity. Most places wouldn't even bother checking that, though, any more than most places bother to look at your ID for a credit card these days.

There are, however, digital records that exist elsewhere to verify or discredit everything the SIN claims. Until/unless you start hacking those files you don't even have a Rating 1 Fake SIN, just a stolen ID and creditcard that can be nullified as soon as the proper owner files a complaint, and which will throw up big red flags as soon as someone checks them in any way.

Since forging a Fake SIN is (Rating x 32, 1 week), there's a very good chance the victim would still show up as the owner of the SIN either via reciting the number from memory and the officer running a check, or via "forensic" biometric scans to identify them... something even Lone Star would do for a SINless Non-Metahuman Sapient, if only to check for Wants & Warrants.

[CitizenJoe]

1. Paranormals are rare.  Paranormals being issued SINs is rare on the order of Act of Congress rare. 
2. IRL when someone steals a credit card in some areas, they will 'clean the card' by whacking the owner so that they know he won't call it in as stolen.

The easy explanation is that you're a SINner foreign citizen whose SIN and passport has been confiscated.  The Vory actually use this when they bring in prostitutes.  They'll say they've got nice jobs as secretaries and such here, but when they bring the girls over, they have pictures of the girl's family saying that they will be killed if they don't go along, then confiscate the passports and put them to work on the streets.

[Moral Wiz]

*nods* I know hacking a SiN is hard, but it's definitely doable, and probably easier than grabbing a SiN from scratch. After all, one of the problems with forging a SiN is the lack of full records and activity within the system. If you're editing an existing SiN, it gets a lot easier.

(Hells, you could probably do a good deal of it officially. Change of name is one point, leaving the only things that need hacking being the metatype and biometrics. And with augmentation and surgery....)

As to regular methods of getting a SiN back, remember, most people have a personal Node at home that probably also has a copy of their SiN stored in it. Failing that, I'm guessing it's something similar to loosing your passport; report it to the authorities, and eventually, they'll issue you a new copy. That system can become unviable, but only if the person has no home, and no matrix using family. Who in this day and age doesn't have family or friends on the Matrix?

@CitizenJoe; Hmm... Confiscation doesn't quite work with my planned concept, and remember, Para communities are isolated and hard to track down/threaten, but thanks for the thought  I have the other two points down though. Yeah, foreign national, French to be precise. As to getting whacked; that's what a professional would do. Some punk kid who thought he had done so by knocking her out?

[Grendel]

I cannot imagine that in 2072, one's SIN is not tied to their DNA, making a permanent hacking of it almost impossible. It would be possible to do it short-term of course, and creating fake SIN's is easy enough. But assuming the identity thief does anything more significant with the ID than buy a Shakey Shake at a Stuffer Shack (such as buy a car, or if he gets arrested), he's going to have to give a DNA sample to connect his person with the SIN he's offering. That act will cause him some problems when his DNA doesn't match what's on file from other verified databases (because only having the info in a single location to check would be idiotic).

[Moral Wiz]

Remember, Genetweaking is now possible, so a character's DNA is not unchangeable. I'd imagine that after such surgery, the clinic would have to file the character's changed genetic signature with the SiN database. How much bribery would be needed to have the doctor submit information for surgery that never took place? Ghost surgery, if you will.

Just throwing around the idea here, but I think it seems viable.

[JustADude]

Remember, Genetweaking is now possible, so a character's DNA is not unchangeable. I'd imagine that after such surgery, the clinic would have to file the character's changed genetic signature with the SiN database. How much bribery would be needed to have the doctor submit information for surgery that never took place? Ghost surgery, if you will.

Just throwing around the idea here, but I think it seems viable.

Oh yeah, it's quite possible.

The problem, as far as the subject at hand, is that all those procedures would still take weeks to do, and they'd have to keep the OP's character from reporting the issue for at least that long and still have the character survive.

[Moral Wiz]

Hmm... Point, but still possible, I think, especially if this happens in Seattle. I'm going to guess that for an issue like 'I lost my SiN, you'd need to contact either your embassy, or your city's Security Corps. KE have access to the SiN database, and might be able to deal with this, given time... theoretically. But they're overworked, it's only borderline their jurisdiction (more like something for GOD, as the SiNer could be long gone) and whoever acted on it would have to essentially take your word for it that you are this person. And when you're not only SINless, but a SINless Para? I can see it taking a month to get a meeting over this. Sure, if you're a Corp citizen, you could go to management and it'd happen almost immediately, but if you're not...

[CitizenJoe]

If someone steals your credstick, which has your SIN, Licenses, Passport, etc.  Or in 2072 your commlink, although at the price of commlinks I can't imagine the average citizen affording one.  Another option is an RFID tag embedded in your hand, which they are doing now and have been doing with pets for over a decade now.    What was I saying?  Oh ya, if someone steals your credstick or commlink, they would only get as far as the public permissions on those items.  You need a password to get access to more of the data.  Depending on the grade of credstick, that could be thumb print, retinal print or even DNA print.  DNA testing isn't cheap so it would only be there for the really high rollers.  Retinal scanners aren't cheap either, but they don't cost on a per use basis.  Retinal level SINs/credsticks are for corporate and military high ranking officers.  They aren't typically useful to people doing their daily business. Voice print checking you'll see in sensitive areas.  Thumb print testing is about as far as you'll see normally.  I would guess that anyone with a gun permit has this as well as a full hand print on file, plus the ballistics profiles.  If it were me, Criminal SINs would be at this level of security as well.  Last is a passcode security. 

It is exceedingly easy to go to the police department and report the credstick/commlink stolen.
Victim:  "My name is <X>.  I just got mugged and someone stole my credstick/commlink.  Here's my thumb print for verification." 
Desk Sergeant : "Thank you <X>.  We'll get a detective on this right away.  Please have a seat in the waiting room and fill out our questionare."
--- couple hours pass...
Beat cop shows up with a bloody credstick.  "I believe this is yours.  Sign here and we can wrap up this case right now, or I'll have to hold it as evidence if you want to press charges..."

It is exactly because of that that people will hand over credsticks rather than risk a beating. It is also because of that that people get robbed for jewelry and not their credsticks.  In order to 'steal' a SIN, the rightful owner can't be allowed to report it.