[Gideon]

Prince vs. Queen question
In my opinion, their will not be a Queen, in either Tir, until ONE of them is considered the cultural HEart of Elven Culture.  The leader of THAT nation will be the Queen or King.  It is mentioned that both nations actively try to be different after they are established.  Perhaps to make the selection more meaningful.

just a thought.

[Mirikon]

Actually, I would say the reason there's no queen of elven peoples now is because there isn't an elven culture now, and the immortal elves can't 'come out' about it without going into a whole lot of stuff about the Fourth World, among other things. As for why the two Tirs are so different, I'd have to go with more than just 'competing for the soul of elvenkind'.

Tir Nan Og plays HEAVILY off the old Irish legends of the Sidhe and the Faerie lands. As such, it is steeped in mysticism and an 'Old World' flavor. Plus, being an island, it is relatively easy to seal off unwanted cultural influences if you want to.

Tir Tairngir, on the other hand, is in Oregon. They don't have that same kind of heritage to play off of, so they made it less of a fairy tale, and more of a mystique, which, for all its fantasy flair, has been done more than once since the middle ages. Those paladins in the flashy plate armor with the gleaming swords. The magical firepower they displayed when they seceeded. Having a dragon on their ruling council. Military parades. The Right of Challenge. All of these things are bread and circuses. It is the best way for a regime surrounded by other nations with vastly different cultures to maintain an identity and keep a tight control on their people at the same time.

[Critias]

Tir Nan Og plays HEAVILY off the old Irish legends of the Sidhe and the Faerie lands. As such, it is steeped in mysticism and an 'Old World' flavor. Plus, being an island, it is relatively easy to seal off unwanted cultural influences if you want to.

They also had the Veil going for them, for a long time.  Magical isolation backed up their geographical seclusion, helping out.

Tir Tairngir, on the other hand, is in Oregon. They don't have that same kind of heritage to play off of, so they made it less of a fairy tale, and more of a mystique, which, for all its fantasy flair, has been done more than once since the middle ages. Those paladins in the flashy plate armor with the gleaming swords. The magical firepower they displayed when they seceeded. Having a dragon on their ruling council. Military parades. The Right of Challenge. All of these things are bread and circuses. It is the best way for a regime surrounded by other nations with vastly different cultures to maintain an identity and keep a tight control on their people at the same time.

It's Fantasyland, from a Disney theme park, really. 

[Ghost]

If I remember right certain titles confers special powers on the person that holds the title in the 4th world (mentioned in the Aztlan book). I have to guess that the Elf Queen title gives some sweet perks but has some special ritual drawbacks/prerequisites/demands that go along with it. I don't know if these powers have ever been given game stats though. So this is what I think. Sósan Naerain (who may have been the Blood Queen) knew about but after 5000 years of freedom didn't want the drawbacks of being Queen but wanted the power back. Perhaps by spreading around the perks and drawbacks among a larger group (the Council of Princes) it may be easier to live with.

[Mad Hamish]

Actually, I would say the reason there's no queen of elven peoples now is because there isn't an elven culture now, and the immortal elves can't 'come out' about it without going into a whole lot of stuff about the Fourth World, among other things. As for why the two Tirs are so different, I'd have to go with more than just 'competing for the soul of elvenkind'.

Tir Nan Og plays HEAVILY off the old Irish legends of the Sidhe and the Faerie lands. As such, it is steeped in mysticism and an 'Old World' flavor. Plus, being an island, it is relatively easy to seal off unwanted cultural influences if you want to.

Tir Tairngir, on the other hand, is in Oregon. They don't have that same kind of heritage to play off of, so they made it less of a fairy tale, and more of a mystique, which, for all its fantasy flair, has been done more than once since the middle ages. Those paladins in the flashy plate armor with the gleaming swords. The magical firepower they displayed when they seceeded. Having a dragon on their ruling council. Military parades. The Right of Challenge. All of these things are bread and circuses. It is the best way for a regime surrounded by other nations with vastly different cultures to maintain an identity and keep a tight control on their people at the same time.

I suspect that it's a continuation of the old elven split in how the Wheel of Life works
Sa'mistisha and Dae'mistisha

[Mad Hamish]

I can also see the IE being divided between supporting Thera and fighting Dragons and supporting Dragons against Thera. That will enlight why there is a dragon in the council of one Tir (pro Elf/Dragon alliance) and none in the council of the other (pro Elf/Theran alliance).

I thought Tir nA nOg was the legacy of the Blood Wood, not anything to do with the Therans???

The high number of elven birth in Ireland suggests there was an Elven nation there during the Fourth Age. So we can imagine it was among the realms ruled by the Blood Wood before the Scourge (one argument against this is that, if Serethea, modern-day Latvia, was in the Western Kingdoms, it somehow suggests the elves weren't aware or didn't care about places west of them).

However, Tir na nOg Seelie Court is different from the Blood Wood Elven Court, since it includes not only elves, but also spirits, pixies, leshies and the likes, who gather on some sort of metaplane. Maybe the island wasn't an elven nation, but the realm of "fairies". Elves and the Elven Court would have moved over there late in the Fourth Age and the fairies offered them those refugees a shelter. That could explain there seems to be far more fairies than elves at the Seelie Court.

If I remember correctly there was a Windling tribe in Wyrm Wood who also underwent the Ritual of Thorns. There were certainly elementals (which would be spirits) and likely nethermances would have been summoning other things as well. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a lot of effort went into finding out about the ritual Parlainth used and the elves did something similar while retaining gates...

[Nerroth]

In light of RedBrick's closure, and the impending emergence of FASA 2.0, it was noted that, for their purposes, Shadowrun is no longer considered to be the Sixth World as "their" Earthdawn has it.

So, where does that leave the Fourth World as Shadowrun might have seen it? If FASA 2.0's new edition of Earthdawn is now considered to be part of a separate timeline (or IP), can Shadowrun still point to the version of Earthdawn that had once been published by old FASA as a part of its own history; or is there no longer an official word on what Catalyst's take on the Fourth World had been?

(As in, do we have to more or less assume that, whatever the Fourth World was from Catalyst's point of view, it might have "kind of sort of been like" old FASA's Earthdawn setting; even if it is no longer officially connected to the "new" Earthdawn?)

[Crimsondude]

My understanding is that everything published by FASA pre-Dragons Sourcebook (the unfinished ebook being a grey area) is canon. The additions made to the 2004 LRG Dragons SB and everything else from RedBrick and Living Room Games are definitely not. At least as far as I know. This makes my life immensely easier, BTW.

[Nerroth]

So, essentially, the new set of alternate timelines branch off just prior to that ebook (give or take); and go in their own directions thereafter?

I wonder if that makes for three semi-related alternate timelines, now:

*one for Shadowrun and its old-FASA background,

*a second for the current Earthdawn's past and future, as will be developed by FASA 2.0,

*and a third for Equinox, which has its own IP holder at the moment (though I'm a little vague on whether or not it had originally been intended to be RedBrick-Earthdawn's future, or if it was always intended to be a new timeline in and of itself.)

[Kot]

I'd say that RedBrick rulebooks before the big break (Carsten Damm and Kathy Schad leaving RB) can easily be considered canon whenever you take the fourth-sixth age connections into account. The old RedBrick team didn't do anything drastic, they just refurbished some old material, and created the 'eastern sourcebook'. The Kratas book is also a nice piece of work, and since it was written in the Earthdawn Classic (first edition in new clothes and make-up), it's still very close to the old FASA ED.

Equinox was supposed to be looking up to Shadowrun a little bit, if I remember correctly - there were such hints, but with the old RB forums being swallowed by the void, I couldn't pull that specific hint out without a metaplanar quest. And I'm a bit drained at the moment...

[RelentlessImp]

I'd say that RedBrick rulebooks before the big break (Carsten Damm and Kathy Schad leaving RB) can easily be considered canon whenever you take the fourth-sixth age connections into account. The old RedBrick team didn't do anything drastic, they just refurbished some old material, and created the 'eastern sourcebook'. The Kratas book is also a nice piece of work, and since it was written in the Earthdawn Classic (first edition in new clothes and make-up), it's still very close to the old FASA ED.

Equinox was supposed to be looking up to Shadowrun a little bit, if I remember correctly - there were such hints, but with the old RB forums being swallowed by the void, I couldn't pull that specific hint out without a metaplanar quest. And I'm a bit drained at the moment...

Next time I submerge I'll take a trip to the Archives and pull the data out for you. You're paying for it, right?

[Kot]

Hell yes. In freshly grinded bust-a-move parts.

[Mirikon]

Seattle is my turf, so calling out hotels that offer under-the-table services such as these is not something I’m inclined to do. I will say that we are home to one of the most well-known dominatrixes in the world. Her client list reads like an Archconservative National Convention speaker list. Mistress Alachia is very discreet, professional, and well worth the money. I refer my clients to her all the time, and they always come back satisfied.

I wonder...

[Nath]

Oh, I can perfectly imagine the story. A mysterious, wealthy elve from Tir Tairngire that regularly came to Seattle for a private session. He insisted on calling her "Alachia" and do that thing with thorns glued to the skin. He was by far her best client when she started her career, and the name stuck.

It only lefts me wondering... Surehand? Oakforest? Ehran?

[Mirikon]

It only lefts me wondering... Surehand? Oakforest? Ehran?

Jenna Ni'Fiarra? Harlequin?

What? If we're gonna speculate, then let's make it good!