[Reaver]

A player recently brought up a good question in regards to cyberware and biometrics. And that is simply "how do they mesh together?"

When you think about security in the 2070's it's hard not to think about all the biometrics mentioned. Thumb printers, eye scanners, body heat sensors, DNA decoders, and everything else. We also know from the core rule book that just about anything that requires a SIN uses a biometric of some sort... Not to mention maglocks! (at the higher end)

Seems to me that the 2 most used types would be an eyes scanner (small, portable, and easy to use) followed by a finger printer (same reasons). Now when you think about it, the 2 most common forms of cyberware would be cyber eyes, and cyber limbs. There are just too many ways for a person to lose a limb/eye in everyday life.

For the cyber eyes, what happens for a biometric scan? Does the cyber eye contain your original retinal pattern do it can be scanned? (yes I know there is a mod that allows you to store multiple patterns).

Usually a person would just lose one arm/hand in an accident... So they could use the other hand got a print reader. But what if they lost/had both arms replaced? does the cyber have a impression of their fingerprints? Do they have to use a different means of proving their ID?

Kinda stumped me for a while. I just ruled my GM fait that cybereyes contained the original retinal pattern, and worse case, a cyber limb would have a wifi broadcast of the original finger prints for ID verification (at rating 0 broadcasting, for security... Meaning they have to touch the scanner to be read)

I'm interested on your thoughts on this.

[Thrass]

basically... a retina scanner makes a "photograph" of the backside (inside) of your eye which is transparent solid medium... the retina which is a setup of bio receptors triggered by light

now a camera has a glass front a hollow part and then a silicon chip which is a setup of silicon based light receptors

now if it'ld be bioware heck I don't know what that'ld be but sicne it's cyberware it should pretty much resemble what a digital camera is today

if a retina scanner scans a cybereye it scans just that... alot of electronics... and I think you just go and update all the security devices with your new prints...
so the retina scanners should in case of a cyber eye just scan the electronics and check them for validity...

a fingerprint scanner should also notice this is a cyberlimb and check for unique features acceptable to security standards...

now a cybereye that fakes retinas would just do that... bypass cybereye scanning procedures and providing a fake retina... however it'll do it (projecting an image right into the scanner may work best)
a fingerprint faker would also bypass the cyberlimb scanning and provide a fingerprint and every related data (I don't know much about fingerprint scanning so I'll skip details)

[Reaver]

Oh, I'm not thinking in a runner sense, just in the everyday, people around the world, sense. Runners will figure out a way past most things, I'm just interested in how the everyday cybered deal with biometrics.


I see what you're saying about the retinal scanner though. Thanks for the reply

[Thrass]

I'ld say... but ultimately it's up to the GM because there is no RAW

that normal cyber eyes and normal fingerprint scanners have 2 scanning systems... one for the real stuff and one for cybered stuff

so a normal cyberfinger dosn't need to have real prints it just validates with the builtin cyberscanner version

at least that's ho I'ld run it

[Lethe]

Oh, I'm not thinking in a runner sense, just in the everyday, people around the world, sense. Runners will figure out a way past most things, I'm just interested in how the everyday cybered deal with biometrics.

Everyday people don't regularly lose limbs, so that they have to worry about biometrics. Same with cybereyes, even being the most common cyberware, i don't see more then 20% of the population using them. How many people will lose all limbs, eyes, facial structure, their voice, or the ability to remember a codenumber all at once. For those people who really need biometrics, there are other ways. So nobody will ever worry about that.

[Reaver]

Oh, I'm not thinking in a runner sense, just in the everyday, people around the world, sense. Runners will figure out a way past most things, I'm just interested in how the everyday cybered deal with biometrics.

Everyday people don't regularly lose limbs, so that they have to worry about biometrics. Same with cybereyes, even being the most common cyberware, i don't see more then 20% of the population using them. How many people will lose all limbs, eyes, facial structure, their voice, or the ability to remember a codenumber all at once. For those people who really need biometrics, there are other ways. So nobody will ever worry about that.

Dude, work in the industrial field. In the last 10 years there has been 18 amputations (on site!) and over 30 eye injuries! And that is just at our camp in the middle no-where BC, Canada!! I know these stats cause I get to look over the reports as the electrical safety lead.
Now, add in car accidents, domestic violence, assaults, urban crime.... there are alot more people losing limbs then you realize! (it really very scary when you think about it:( )

Cyberware was made for mundane reasons. To help the masses that have suffered these injuries (at least originally). Then (like the little lemmings they are), someone thinks it's 'cool' and starts a 'new fad' by replaces bits that aren't damaged.... And SOME people *cough, runners, cough* do it just for the advantage it could give them.

As for biometrics, they are everywhere... And depending on what you are doing, a simple passcode isn't going to cut mustard. In fact I would be willing to bet (given paranoia levels in the 2070s) at retinal or finger prints are the norm. ("why setting for a passcode for your shopping security? Passcodes can be hacked!! Passcodes could be forgotten!! Use MIT's secure I retinal scans to protect your accounts and shop with peace of mind! Remember, if it's not Secure I, they could be stealing from you!!")

Like I said, I thought it was an interesting question and wanted your input.

[CanRay]

FWIW, one of the novels had the protagonist complain about how expensive it was to keep having the same fingerprints on his Cyberarms.  Even as a child, unknowing too much of the criminal nature, I thought, "That's actually perfect for a 'Runner.  No oil to leave residue behind for crime scene teams, so you CAN keep the same fingerprints and not give a damn."

And, considering it was Argent talking, I listened.  Very.  Carefully.

For more budget cyberlimbs (Generic "Off the rack and adjusted for you") you're probably going to have almost the same biometrics for hand size and fingerprints as your natural arm had (If you have that info on record) or it'll show up as, "Cyberarm, please use other hand."

Cyberoptics get even more complicated.

[Reaver]

FWIW, one of the novels had the protagonist complain about how expensive it was to keep having the same fingerprints on his Cyberarms.  Even as a child, unknowing too much of the criminal nature, I thought, "That's actually perfect for a 'Runner.  No oil to leave residue behind for crime scene teams, so you CAN keep the same fingerprints and not give a damn."

And, considering it was Argent talking, I listened.  Very.  Carefully.

For more budget cyberlimbs (Generic "Off the rack and adjusted for you") you're probably going to have almost the same biometrics for hand size and fingerprints as your natural arm had (If you have that info on record) or it'll show up as, "Cyberarm, please use other hand."

Cyberoptics get even more complicated.

Interesting.... Can never find any of the novels here in BC. Too bad too, cause I like to read (job site doesn't have TV/cable and cell service is weak) tried all the big name place and used book stores to no avail

[Henzington]

Even in shadowrun, Biometrics are generally regarded as a more expensive security option.  Things like Retinal Duplication for cybereyes are completely illegal so just as a house rule always assumed that cybereyes by default have either a specific pattern or no pattern at all.  As far as cyberlimb, I would think as a praticial matter they would have some kind of pattern to provide grip but if you have ever seen current fake hands it looks nothing like a fingerprint.

[Angelone]

Military personnel also would have a higher instance of cyberlimbs/eyes than most civilians. I haven't really thought much on this subject but my gut tells me that cyberlimbs and eyes have a unique pattern for biometric purposes, whether it's a bunch of numbers or an actual design would vary by manufacturer. 

[CanRay]

Military personnel also would have a higher instance of cyberlimbs/eyes than most civilians. I haven't really thought much on this subject but my gut tells me that cyberlimbs and eyes have a unique pattern for biometric purposes, whether it's a bunch of numbers or an actual design would vary by manufacturer.

Reads the serial number on the limb/eye?

[Blue_Lion]

well there could be a patern or Id number on the eye/cyber limb included for those. Specialy if it is a common form of ID. They could also use a DNA scanner for biometrics in witch case have to be from a non cybered part.

Finger print scanners are the most common form of biometic ID today because the other ones are to bulky expensive to make. But even the most advance fingerprint scanner is rather easy to defeat. Myth busters beat a top of the line one with a print out of a finger print. The retna scanner might be harder to beat as it is a micro picture of the inside of the eye. High securty places might use a DNA scaner for id thout.