[blackangel]

I don't know if the question has been asked, I'm sorry if it has...

How would you treat the astral form power if it's endowed to its summoner ?

BA

[Chrona]

I guess I'd treat it like Astral Projection without leaving your meat behind.

[beowulf_of_wa]

you'd thank god they got rid of the astral grounding rules, cause you're now an astral beacon?

[CanRay]

Wow, did I ever read the title of this thread wrong. 

[Hellfire]

As a GM I would not allow this power to be endowed, as per the description of both powers:
"Endowment
The   spirit grants the use of one of its powers to the subject.[...]"

this sounds like something which should be voluntary/optional/can be switched on/off.
However Astral Form:
"Action:   Auto   •   Range:   Self   •   Duration:   Always   
A critter with the Astral Form power exists in the astral plane only."
seems to be an inherent attribute of spirits rooted in their nature which is permanently on. This is therefore no advantage but a disadvantage. Therefore if the spirit were to "grant" a subject this power it would force the recipient of the power to the astral space without any possibility to return to the mundane realm on his own (as he does not have the materialize/possession power).
Of course Endowment is in itself a sustained power, which may be terminated by the spirit in question at any time, so the actual question is what happens to a purely astral creature when it looses the "astral form" power.
In my game that would be a physical being stranded in astral space or as an alternative this would force the material creature to their home plane (earth in case of a normal magician), disrupted, meaning dead, as the magician has no way to reform his body.

This is of course only my opinion, however I would warn my players that they would try something which has never been tried as far as they have heard (at least not successful) and that it can lead to grave consequenses (magical research IS dangerous)

[blackangel]

As a GM I would not allow this power to be endowed, as per the description of both powers:
"Endowment
The   spirit grants the use of one of its powers to the subject.[...]"

this sounds like something which should be voluntary/optional/can be switched on/off.
However Astral Form:
"Action:   Auto   •   Range:   Self   •   Duration:   Always   
A critter with the Astral Form power exists in the astral plane only."

This is of course only my opinion, however I would warn my players that they would try something which has never been tried as far as they have heard (at least not successful) and that it can lead to grave consequenses (magical research IS dangerous)

Thanks for the answer    AS always a question is followed by others questions :

If you don't allow power with those conditions, how would you treat regeneration or enhanced senses which have the same conditions ?

In fact I see astral creature being native of an astral metaplane, that's why they can't materialize without the power. An earth habitant seems to me to have the same kind of disadvantage as he is materialized "always" and can't go to astral without astral projection, "astral form" or astral rift.
I really like your point on magical research 

Looking to the materialization power, i noticed it's a sustained power, does it mean the spirit as a dice pool modifier while he is materialized ?

@Beowulf* : effectively i think that you will be as recognizable as a manifested spirit on earth with all those pretty nasty implications 

BA

[Demerzel]

Looking to the materialization power, i noticed it's a sustained power, does it mean the spirit as a dice pool modifier while he is materialized ?

It is a sustained power not a sustained spell. SR4A, p293, "Sustained powers may be maintained over time at no effort or cost."

Dropping out of what the rules are clear and fast on and in the range of opinion:

My take on the Astral Form issue is a tough one and I've been thinking lately about this very issue.

As it's written I can only imagine that if you are endowed astral form you're ripped into the Astral and have no body (however the power has no indication about the status of the spirit on its home plane while it is astrally visiting our plane).

That's got all sorts of scary consequences that give me heartburn. Two quick examples of why includes: True astral travel taking your body with you, and being able to force a target into the astral to have your magical way with them.

Neither feels like a good thing to allow in a game. You could say that it leaves a body just like projection, since there is nothing to say what a spirit has laying on the ground in its home plane as I mentioned, that solves some of the first but not the second. And you could require endowment to have a willing target, though nothing in the rules seems to support that.

My solution is that Astral Form feels more like a weakness than a power. It sets limits rather than granting power to a spirit. I would advocate for an errata converting Astral Form into a weakness for every spirit, and solve this problem. In games I play I'd call that a house rule and move forward. If I were running an official demo as an agent I would not bring any premade characters with invoking to avoid the problem while acting in an official capacity.

[blackangel]

In fact we can keep in mind that "sorcery" can't have effects such as teleportation and just don't allow it (even though it will be an easy way)

Thank you for the answers

BA

[Demerzel]

Also I've noticed recently that Spirit Pacts specifically exclude Astral Form, Materialization, Possession, or Inhabitation (SMp109). I think that a potential solution would be to add this restriction to Endowment at some point, I think I will in my games.

[blackangel]

Also I've noticed recently that Spirit Pacts specifically exclude Astral Form, Materialization, Possession, or Inhabitation (SMp109). I think that a potential solution would be to add this restriction to Endowment at some point, I think I will in my games.

As always a new question 
If we use your answer it will solve the problem but "what if" (I think I saw a post about what if  ) someone is endowed with inhabitation and try it on a spirit, a metahuman... ?

BA

[Demerzel]

Also I've noticed recently that Spirit Pacts specifically exclude Astral Form, Materialization, Possession, or Inhabitation (SMp109). I think that a potential solution would be to add this restriction to Endowment at some point, I think I will in my games.

As always a new question 
If we use your answer it will solve the problem but "what if" (I think I saw a post about what if  ) someone is endowed with inhabitation and try it on a spirit, a metahuman... ?

BA

My first thought is that inhabitation takes days and you'll die in Magic hours of astrally projecting.

[blackangel]

Also I've noticed recently that Spirit Pacts specifically exclude Astral Form, Materialization, Possession, or Inhabitation (SMp109). I think that a potential solution would be to add this restriction to Endowment at some point, I think I will in my games.

As always a new question 
If we use your answer it will solve the problem but "what if" (I think I saw a post about what if  ) someone is endowed with inhabitation and try it on a spirit, a metahuman... ?

BA

My first thought is that inhabitation takes days and you'll die in Magic hours of astrally projecting.

Clearly a good point (except for an astral form experimenter which is totally out of point) 

[blackangel]

Another question 

When I read :

"Any of the metamagic techniques available to metahuman initiates may be taken as a free spirit power. Free spirits use Edge in place of initiate grade. It is possible that certain powerful free spirits may also command metamagics yet unknown to metahumanity, providing the gamemaster with a unique opportunity to introduce new metamagic into the game." SM P107

Is it to say that a free spirit can endow a metamagic technique ?

BA

[JustADude]

Another question 

When I read :

"Any of the metamagic techniques available to metahuman initiates may be taken as a free spirit power. Free spirits use Edge in place of initiate grade. It is possible that certain powerful free spirits may also command metamagics yet unknown to metahumanity, providing the gamemaster with a unique opportunity to introduce new metamagic into the game." SM P107

Is it to say that a free spirit can endow a metamagic technique ?

They're essentially buying a Power that exactly mimics the Metamagic technique, except for using Edge instead of Initiate Grade... so I'd say "yes". But that's just me.