[blackangel]

As english is not my mother language, I have an understanding question.

Can you confirm it's only possible to have one and only one ally because I don't manage to completely understand "the unique spiritS"
- an unique spirit (ally)
- or ally spirits are unique due to formulas and we can have multiple ones

BA

[Tsuzua]

I'm not sure which passage you're referring.  However, both passages I could fine that deal with summoning unique ally spirits (SM p53 & 103) are referring to ally spirits being unique because they have special ally spirit rules attached to them.  Since I couldn't find out a line saying you can't, I believe you can summon multiple ally spirits.  Having several ally spirits would be expensive karma wise so there isn't really a balance issue. 

[Reaver]

I is not clear if you are limited to just one (1) ally spirit. In theory, if you wanted to spend the karma and $$$ on multiple spirits I guess you could.but each one would require a seperate formula, ritual and materials.



Also, keep in mind it is possible to lose an ally spirit if you mistreat it or constantly place it in danger. (Street magic Pg. 105) so the question I guess would be: "why do you need more then 1 ally spirit?" if the answer is "I want to have run around with <X,Y,Z> buffs and have the other do <A,B,C> things for me." you are running the danger of the Gm saying "Your Ally spirit hates you and tries to go free!" Considering how much time and effort it takes (not to mention Karma!) that would really suck.

Talk to you GM, see what he says. That is always the best plan for anything that is not covered by the rules.

[blackangel]

In fact there's no problem with the GM, it will be me.
I'm just working on a NPC and want to know how far I can go or not without tweaking the rules.

Thanks
BA

[JustADude]

In fact there's no problem with the GM, it will be me.
I'm just working on a NPC and want to know how far I can go or not without tweaking the rules.

Then no, I'm pretty sure there's no "one per customer" limit according to RAW. The book tends to be wonderfully explicit about such things.

In fact, I imagine that certain really old and powerful mages *cough*GreatDragons*cough* might have quite a few since, based on Missions, most "active" characters tend to accumulate something like 100-300 karma a year, and I'd say Machiavellian plotting and pulling global puppet strings would be at least as karma-inducing as going out and shooting people for money.

[Demerzel]

It does concern me that street magic explicitly excludes dice gained from an ally from the limit of one bound spirit performing aid sorcery per test. So 10 force 6 ally spirits would add 60 dice to a spellcasting test... makes a power focus seem obsolete.

An Ally costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

A power focus costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

And you can have more than one ally? Ouch.

[raggedhalo]

Counteracted by the optional rule under Dice Pool Modifiers, pg. 61, SR4A.

[All4BigGuns]

Counteracted by the optional rule under Dice Pool Modifiers, pg. 61, SR4A.

Key word there is optional, which means that in the majority of cases, it will not be in effect. I know that I, for one, do not use optional rules that hamstring my players.

[Chrona]

It does concern me that street magic explicitly excludes dice gained from an ally from the limit of one bound spirit performing aid sorcery per test. So 10 force 6 ally spirits would add 60 dice to a spellcasting test... makes a power focus seem obsolete.

An Ally costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

A power focus costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

And you can have more than one ally? Ouch.

This is the stuff of campaign villains ;P

[raggedhalo]

I, for one, do not use optional rules that hamstring my players.

I apply the rules equally to PCs and NPCs.  If PCs are "hamstrung" by something, so are NPCs.

But I respect your right to run the game differently to me, even if I don't like the way you use quite aggressive terminology to characterise it.

[All4BigGuns]

I, for one, do not use optional rules that hamstring my players.

I apply the rules equally to PCs and NPCs.  If PCs are "hamstrung" by something, so are NPCs.

But I respect your right to run the game differently to me, even if I don't like the way you use quite aggressive terminology to characterise it.

I would apply the rule to the NPCs, but not PCs.

[blackangel]

Counteracted by the optional rule under Dice Pool Modifiers, pg. 61, SR4A.

In fact in this case it won't necessarily be a good idea even though I will stick with it.
Just have a look, if we discard material things if someone want to summon lets say a force 20 spirit, the dice pool of the spirit for binding will be lets say 20, far from 40 normally. Well, with successes upon a 20 dice roll, the drain should be harmfull...

It does concern me that street magic explicitly excludes dice gained from an ally from the limit of one bound spirit performing aid sorcery per test. So 10 force 6 ally spirits would add 60 dice to a spellcasting test... makes a power focus seem obsolete.

An Ally costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

A power focus costs 8 karma per force and can add force die to all your spellcasting tests.

And you can have more than one ally? Ouch.

This is the stuff of campaign villains ;P

Here I'm more concerned about ally spirit with possession (I really thought that only possession tradition can summon a possession ally spirit). Lets give a try to a force 12 ally spirit possessing it's caster, with also spellcasting skill. The caster know have 12 in its magic attribute, 12 in its spellcasting skill and 12 in its aid sorcery  Not bad you will say 

I have also another point, I thought until just a minute ago that aid sorcery affect only Sorcery skills, not Conjuring ones (as they can't use conjuring skills). I just saw this : "If the ally spirit attempts to break free, it must make an Opposed Test pitting its Force x 2 against the magician’s Magic + Binding (the ally does not need to add dice to the master on this test)." Loosing an ally SM p105.

Assuming that you use an attribute of magic bound to the force of your ally, aid sorcery, a binding skill and a focus (power)... it will be easy to bind rapidly really huge ally spirit (even easier with the limitation upon dice pool).

Drain you will say... Yes, the only problem with multiple ally, you can just sacrifice one for a really huge and nasty drain. Not to say throw manabolt at 20+ force with no drain 

Well I stop my Villains Bad Guy dream as I won't allow something like this in my campaign   
And the NPC I try to build will be a good guy 

BA

[Lethe]

Here I'm more concerned about ally spirit with possession (I really thought that only possession tradition can summon a possession ally spirit). Lets give a try to a force 12 ally spirit possessing it's caster, with also spellcasting skill. The caster know have 12 in its magic attribute, 12 in its spellcasting skill and 12 in its aid sorcery  Not bad you will say 

• you need channeling,
• its highly debatable that you use the spirits magic with channeling, since you also use your own skills,
• you still use your own skills, not the spirits,
• to get a F12 ally spirit have to beat his 24 dice opposed test in binding,
• and survive the average 16P drain, good luck

[Orvich]

Not to mention that creating an Ally spirit with 12 force costs 96 base karma, and it would cost even more to create one at a lower force and raise its force that high.

[blackangel]

• you need channeling,
• its highly debatable that you use the spirits magic with channeling, since you also use your own skills,
• you still use your own skills, not the spirits,
• to get a F12 ally spirit have to beat his 24 dice opposed test in binding,
• and survive the average 16P drain, good luck

In fact I understand channeling according to skills as the possibility to have a spirit allowing you the use of a skill you don't have (or you want to boost a bit) like a skillsoft.

For the drain, as I said previously, if you have another ally he can resist the drain at your place so, not a big issue (if you want a bad rep with your spirits of course) 

Not to mention that creating an Ally spirit with 12 force costs 96 base karma, and it would cost even more to create one at a lower force and raise its force that high.

In fact it's really chip considering the fact that if you have 3 in all your physical stats, to boost them to "only" 6 it will cost you around 180 karma 

In fact the best way to prevent this sort of thing coming into my mind would be to not allow to summon an ally with higher force than your own magic. It doesn't prevent force 10 or a bit more for a really powerfull initiate mage but no 20 or more for sure.

BA