[ArkangelWinter]

Most of my players have had a Judge or lawyer contact per team, mostly for legwork. It's rare they're actual services are needed, though our TM did marry an investigative journalist once.

[Kontact]

I'm curious how many GMs and players have lawyers show up as part of campaigns?  Does anyone buy one as a contact?

A good criminal attorney is part fixer, part info-broker, and part cover.

So...

Better call Saul!

[CanRay]

"Otto Sinclair. I'm from 1-800-1 -GO-FREE." - 3KMTG

[Kesslan]

I think in my next life I'm going to make a shadowrunner that IS a lawyer. Then give him the erased quality so he can sue anyone that 'wrongfully imprisons him'.

[lurkeroutthere]

It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...

Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed.

They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.

Eh it'd be careful with that, Sinner is supposed to be a nagative quality. If your letting a positive quality + negative quality = Better positive quality then that's something I would come down hard on GM wise. But then again I do run with the mentality that there are no gotchas against me in Shadowrun.

Don't get me wrong Erased is a great quality as it takes care of most of the modern detritus of daily life. I'm just skeptical of it's ability to be a magical get out of jail free card.

Generally the way I'd run it, especially if the runners were thrown in jail for something fairly major, murder, arson, french poodle breading without a permit their going to be issued a criminal SIN at booking with a a provisional tag shortly after booking. That SIN is hard to make go away (after all hacking the SIN databases are epic hacks, that's why runners rely on good forgeries as opposed to just having Joe hacker gin them up a new SIN).  Now erased will kick in and eventually their hacker pal will get into the database and erase the links between the two SINs. But that doesn't stop the fact that there's now a criminal sin in the system with the runners biometrics. It may very well come back to haunt them occasionally until they get somethign done about it.

Rule 0 Always Applies: Don't Get Caught

[CanRay]

It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...

Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed.

They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.

Unless the Fake SIN is broken, which is a crime.

And if they're not using a Fake SIN, there's trespassing.

And, honestly, I love the line, "Weither it exists or not, we'll find the evidence, sir."  Great for a politically dangerous case!

[All4BigGuns]

It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...

Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed.

They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.

Eh it'd be careful with that, Sinner is supposed to be a nagative quality. If your letting a positive quality + negative quality = Better positive quality then that's something I would come down hard on GM wise. But then again I do run with the mentality that there are no gotchas against me in Shadowrun.

Don't get me wrong Erased is a great quality as it takes care of most of the modern detritus of daily life. I'm just skeptical of it's ability to be a magical get out of jail free card.

Generally the way I'd run it, especially if the runners were thrown in jail for something fairly major, murder, arson, french poodle breading without a permit their going to be issued a criminal SIN at booking with a a provisional tag shortly after booking. That SIN is hard to make go away (after all hacking the SIN databases are epic hacks, that's why runners rely on good forgeries as opposed to just having Joe hacker gin them up a new SIN).  Now erased will kick in and eventually their hacker pal will get into the database and erase the links between the two SINs. But that doesn't stop the fact that there's now a criminal sin in the system with the runners biometrics. It may very well come back to haunt them occasionally until they get somethign done about it.

Rule 0 Always Applies: Don't Get Caught

Considering that you're netting either even or paying 5 points (maybe more, can't remember exact costs at the moment, but it is not likely to be less than even even with the lowest Erased), there's honestly not a problem in the world with getting the good parts of having a SIN--not counting Criminal SIN--without the annoying shyte.

[lurkeroutthere]

I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.

I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv

[JustADude]

I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.

I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv

However, take a look at Astral Hazing on a non-awakened character: Minor inconvenience since heal-spells are at -4 Force, but otherwise you're getting paid to be a walking Force 4 Mana Static spell.

Erased (Weekly) and SINner (regular) cancel out... but you're still spending 5 points off your cap for Positive Quality and Negative Quality points, so you're still expending resources and should get a net benefit. You can still be tracked by your SIN, and people can break into your home in the middle of the night and do bad things to you while you sleep, but Erased means that LEGAL repercussions are going to be much easier to get rid of, if you take reasonable precautions.

Erased (Daily) and SINner cost you a net of 5 BP and take even more Quality points, so the fact that your LEGAL troubles vanish isn't at all out of line, considering how many extra-legal threats there are. You might be teflon-coated as far as the courts are concerned, but that's not going to stop the Yakuza, or even some off-the-clock Cops, from tuning you up and leaving you in dire need of some Cyberhands if you're ever gonna use your fingers again.

SINner (Criminal) brings its own bag of pain since, until you pay Karma to get it burned for good, you still get treated like an ex-Con, with all the hassles that entails.


... ... ...

For some reason, I now want to play a Technomancer (non-SINner) with Alias or Idoru for a paragon, and the Erased (Daily) as a "blessing" from the Resonance Entity in question.

[Sichr]

I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.

I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv

In fact, thios combination...Erased SINner, is very good story tool...if the player can use it. I dont know how often we meet players who are just abusing qualities to get some free BPs. Everyone is talking about it like it is a great issue,, well Ive never meet such player...IRL...befeore Ive come to forums that is...and since I as a GM a cooperating with players who are creating their characters, I have no such problem. Experienced it once...player made character that was perfectly viable and playable, and after a few runs and after reading all sourcebooks he decided that this living creature is not enought and insisted that he wants to create another character. I told him to spend karma to get his current character to the level he want. Not an option. So I told him to GTFO and never come back.
srry if not comprehensive well Im celebrating birthdaya and am a bit...DRUNK

[All4BigGuns]

I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.

I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv

However, take a look at Astral Hazing on a non-awakened character: Minor inconvenience since heal-spells are at -4 Force, but otherwise you're getting paid to be a walking Force 4 Mana Static spell.

Erased (Weekly) and SINner (regular) cancel out... but you're still spending 5 points off your cap for Positive Quality and Negative Quality points, so you're still expending resources and should get a net benefit. You can still be tracked by your SIN, and people can break into your home in the middle of the night and do bad things to you while you sleep, but Erased means that LEGAL repercussions are going to be much easier to get rid of, if you take reasonable precautions.

Erased (Daily) and SINner cost you a net of 5 BP and take even more Quality points, so the fact that your LEGAL troubles vanish isn't at all out of line, considering how many extra-legal threats there are. You might be teflon-coated as far as the courts are concerned, but that's not going to stop the Yakuza, or even some off-the-clock Cops, from tuning you up and leaving you in dire need of some Cyberhands if you're ever gonna use your fingers again.

SINner (Criminal) brings its own bag of pain since, until you pay Karma to get it burned for good, you still get treated like an ex-Con, with all the hassles that entails.


... ... ...

For some reason, I now want to play a Technomancer (non-SINner) with Alias or Idoru for a paragon, and the Erased (Daily) as a "blessing" from the Resonance Entity in question.

The second part of this is exactly what I was saying, I just didn't think that going so in-depth was needed. Why go out of the way to mess with the character on the worst parts of SINner if they're not really netting any points out of it?