[Glorthoron]

Your Mage has been given an address of a location that he needs to investigate astrally.  How would you allow it to be handled?

Obviously it is not as simple as reading street signs and numbers, since you can't read those from astral space.

Would it be as simple as him looking on Mitsuhama Maps and locating the building from his location; then going astral and counting the number of streets north and the number of streets west to his location?

Or do you think he should have to go and locate his destination on the physical world before being able to travel there astrally?

Or do you have other thoughts on the subject?

[Icy]

Orientation in astral space is not easy. Some astral landmarks like awakened churches and monuments or zones with high background count are the best orientation aid you have there. This is the reason why my mages always have the navigation skill with an astral navigation specialization.
For example, the highly awakened cathedral of Aachen is said to be a famous astral landmark for projecting mages (Schatten über Aachen in the new german Mephisto magazine).

Another method is to have a mindlink up to someone who is looking at a map and can direct you (a trick my mage plays with her ally spirit quite often).

Spirits would have the same problem, so maybe they should have the navigation skill?

[Glorthoron]

I have a player who is of the mind that he should be able to find things easily on the astral plane because all he has to do is count streets and buildings.  I'm trying to find a way to diswade this train of thought.

[Black]

Memory test, with modifiers based on:
How far he has to travel
 - +2 if located within a block or 2
-  +0 same neighbourhood
-  -2 same district
-  -6 neighbouring district
-  -10 same city
How astrally significant the location is
-  -/+ based on background count
If the mage has been their before.
-   +2 been to the location before
-  +4 to +8  has emotional significane to the mage
Other Modifiers
-  Wound modifiers (of course)
- +2 to +4 Location stands out, eg Acrology like ACHE (but then finding a place inside the ACHE....)

[DarkLloyd]

Or you could, you know, Manifest and read a street sign.......... Just have Local Area Knowledge and it should be no problem.

Do you guys really wanna get bogged down in that much minutiae? The finding of the place? The recon once they arrive, yeah go all out on that part but the "cut scene" to travel there?
I could see if its some where hidden or disguised but  "Hey go recon building so and so over in neighborhood such and such."? If you wanna just say it takes them a bit longer to find a building that's somewhere they don't know that's fine but they are traveling at the speed of thought..... so how long is that really gonna take?

[blackangel]

An Easy Way is : summon a watcher. Ask him to find the location. rejoin him.

[Makki]

This is the reason why my mages always have the navigation skill with an astral navigation specialization.

that's what I would do. One can also default on INT-1. A local area knowledge skill check should help, too. If I have a mage that's using projection a lot, I give him "Seattle astral space" as a knowledge skill. That convinces every GM.

@Glorthoron: let him role Navigation.
@DarkLloyd: This is in no way harassing mages. They're powerful enough . They shouldn't get a free access pass to everything. One hit should be enough. But if he glitches, I tell him he got lost.

[DarkLloyd]

This is the reason why my mages always have the navigation skill with an astral navigation specialization.

that's what I would do. One can also default on INT-1. A local area knowledge skill check should help, too. If I have a mage that's using projection a lot, I give him "Seattle astral space" as a knowledge skill. That convinces every GM.

@Glorthoron: let him role Navigation.
@DarkLloyd: This is in no way harassing mages. They're powerful enough . They shouldn't get a free access pass to everything. One hit should be enough. But if he glitches, I tell him he got lost.

I wasn't saying that it was harassment on mages. I was just thinking that, unless for the sake of the game you have done something to hide the place where they are going, there is no point in taking time to go thru a back and forth about the journey instead of spending that session time resolving the recon itself. If you have let the GM make a roll with whatever mods he wants to come up with and just say it takes this long.

I just didnt get the point. I like to get as much out of my game time as possible.

[Mantis]

I'll second that DarkLloyd. I mean the magician could just levitate or look around and see where a place is in real space, go back to ground and then go there astrally. Or any of a number of other navigation methods, but really, you don't ask the street sam to make navigation tests to get to a place so why make the magician do it? If it isn't part of the story then it just becomes needless dice rolling. Nothing more pointless than rolling dice just for the sake of rolling dice. The players will figure a way there no matter what and then they become resentful at what appears to be the GM throwing pointless obstacles in their way.

[Icy]

Or you could, you know, Manifest and read a street sign.

I always thought that you are still astrally perceiving while manifesting. It says nothing about being able to use your physical senses, just making yourself visible to non astral active persons (as a purely pschic effect, so it's not even physical). That's why I ruled that out in my post above.
But please correct me there if I understood that one wrong. It would change my game quite a bit, because astral surveillance would be much more useful that way. 

[Glorthoron]

Or you could, you know, Manifest and read a street sign.

I always thought that you are still astrally perceiving while manifesting. It says nothing about being able to use your physical senses, just making yourself visible to non astral active persons (as a purely pschic effect, so it's not even physical). That's why I ruled that out in my post above.
But please correct me there if I understood that one wrong. It would change my game quite a bit, because astral surveillance would be much more useful that way. 

I'm pretty sure you are right on this one.

[Black]

While I agree that this is really up to the game, the gm and the players, I think long distance travel in the Astral is a bit different from a SS driving his bike through the street.

I think Astral travel for a short distance should be reletively simple, the fact that a mage can travel long distances at the speed of thought can complicate things.

A city, specially the Seattle Metroplex, is a big place.  Travelling from Fort Worth to Tacoma should be a bit of a challenge without a map.  A SS can consult street signs, his GPS, Grid Guide, whatever, to find a particular unit, in a particular building, in a particular street in a particular neighbourhood in a particular district (and so forth).  But a mage whose never been there before?  With out any maps (unless they memorise it and can match astral imagery to real world landmarks)... how to the find Bradley Lane, of Landfall Crecent, in Daisy Park, etc etc.  I think its a challenge.

That said, it depends on the GM and the game.  In my games, mages use Astral to scout locations, usually leaving their body with their buds in a nearby car.  Alternatively, they use ritual magic to track a person down accross long distances... but they are using a material link, not a street map.

If Mages started flying accross the city without a material link etc... I would start asking them to check if they get lost.  The city is a big place to travel without some form a guide...

[lurkeroutthere]

You cannot manifest and read a street sign.

[JustADude]

You cannot manifest and read a street sign.

Citation?

[DarkLloyd]

You cannot manifest and read a street sign.

Citation?

Yes, please.