[lurkeroutthere]

p.191 of SR4A Astral Perception,

"Non-magical and non-living objects have only gray, lackluster
shadows rather than auras, but pick up impressions from being
in contact with living auras. Assensing can read any impressions left
behind on an object."

Nothing in the manifesting section on page 193 alters that.

"Manifesting
If a purely astral form such as a spirit or an astrally projecting magician
wishes to interact with the physical plane, she must manifest.
Manifesting is a psychic effect that allows an astral form to make
itself visible and audible on the physical plane through an act of will.
Manifesting takes a Simple Action to engage or disengage. Manifesting
characters and spirits appear on the physical plane as ghostly, hazy
images and may freely communicate with physical characters. Unlike
the Materialization power of spirits (p. 296), manifesting does not
create a physical form, and so the character cannot physically interact
with anything, nor can she be harmed by physical attacks. Because
manifestation is a psychic effect, manifested characters cannot be detected,
recorded, or affected by technological devices. Likewise, manifesting
beings are still subject to astral attacks."

I seem to recall in previous editions it was even more explicit on this point up to and including fiction materials describing trying to read on the astral plane as a frustratign experience because the text all came back as gibberish.

[Glorthoron]

p.191 of SR4A Astral Perception,

"Non-magical and non-living objects have only gray, lackluster
shadows rather than auras, but pick up impressions from being
in contact with living auras. Assensing can read any impressions left
behind on an object."

Nothing in the manifesting section on page 193 alters that.

"Manifesting
If a purely astral form such as a spirit or an astrally projecting magician
wishes to interact with the physical plane, she must manifest.
Manifesting is a psychic effect that allows an astral form to make
itself visible and audible on the physical plane through an act of will.
Manifesting takes a Simple Action to engage or disengage. Manifesting
characters and spirits appear on the physical plane as ghostly, hazy
images and may freely communicate with physical characters. Unlike
the Materialization power of spirits (p. 296), manifesting does not
create a physical form, and so the character cannot physically interact
with anything, nor can she be harmed by physical attacks. Because
manifestation is a psychic effect, manifested characters cannot be detected,
recorded, or affected by technological devices. Likewise, manifesting
beings are still subject to astral attacks."

I seem to recall in previous editions it was even more explicit on this point up to and including fiction materials describing trying to read on the astral plane as a frustratign experience because the text all came back as gibberish.

Reading this also makes me think that a manifesting character could not hear all of the sounds going on around him when he is manifest, as communication would be a psychic communication, seeming to the manifesting character and the mundane character as though they were actually talking, as this is the easiest way the human brain would be able to translate this communication.  However, there would be no transmission of sound.

[lurkeroutthere]

The real plus to this is it helps cut down on astral spying on mundane targets.

[Glorthoron]

The real plus to this is it helps cut down on astral spying on mundane targets.

Well, you could still manifest and hear what a mundane target is saying (because you could establish this link psychically from behind, where he cannot see you).  Or would the mundane character become aware of you as soon as you establish that psychic link?

[lurkeroutthere]

Generally I hold that there is no way to subtlety manifest. In order to communicate with a manifested target one must intend to. By the book raw manifested characters can't even be communicated with, but I tend to intentionally overlook that.

[Glorthoron]

Generally I hold that there is no way to subtlety manifest. In order to communicate with a manifested target one must intend to. By the book raw manifested characters can't even be communicated with, but I tend to intentionally overlook that.

citation?

[lurkeroutthere]

See above.

[Glorthoron]

"Manifesting
If a purely astral form such as a spirit or an astrally projecting magician
wishes to interact with the physical plane, she must manifest.
Manifesting is a psychic effect that allows an astral form to make
itself visible and audible on the physical plane through an act of will.
Manifesting takes a Simple Action to engage or disengage. Manifesting
characters and spirits appear on the physical plane as ghostly, hazy
images and may freely communicate with physical characters. Unlike
the Materialization power of spirits (p. 296), manifesting does not
create a physical form, and so the character cannot physically interact
with anything, nor can she be harmed by physical attacks. Because
manifestation is a psychic effect, manifested characters cannot be detected,
recorded, or affected by technological devices. Likewise, manifesting
beings are still subject to astral attacks."

By the book raw manifested characters can't even be communicated with, but I tend to intentionally overlook that.

I think your two quotes contradict each other, but since your original quote was from the rules, I would say that by the book, raw manifested characters can be communicated with.  Unless you mean something else by your second quote

[lurkeroutthere]

On second read I might be reading it too narrowly took it to mean that that it was poor wording and the connection was 1 way. I can definitely see an argument for communicate being both ways. I'm going to concede i'm wrong and go to bed.

[Nath]

The rules don't say you can, but they don't you can't either. I don't think any side can legitimately claims the other is wrong.

As as far as the English language goes, being "visible and audible" doesn't mean you can see and hear. Now a lot of people consider the "freely" part in "freely communication" means you can talk and hear, an thus that you can see to respect symmetry (the astral space would also otherwise be sued for discrimination against deaf-mute people, closed by a court order, and the Sixth World would end). Street sign are not "physical characters" but reading a sign is often not considered a "physical interaction" (people who studied physical optics aside).

So it's all up to the gamemaster.

[lurkeroutthere]

I'm not sure that's the case. The sections could be written clearer true but here's at least my read.

Astral Perception is not regular vision or senses. Your reading auras and impressions, not actual things. Non living things especially don't have proper auras, they pick up emotional imprints. A knife might pick up the scream of the victim stabbed repeatedly with it, Moby Dick might pick up the anger of Ahab, or it might pick up the authors love for the book.

Manifesting is a communications tool, a bone thrown to people by the game designers so their not completely disconnected when their gone astral. I'm fine with that, but people try and read more into it then it is. If there was astral evesdroping of any sort the setting would be fundamentally changed to refect that.