[denyeverything]

new gm here, and been looking over the core manual in preparations to the game and just wanted to share some of my thoughts and hopefully get some feedback.

first off, I think the character creation build order could be changed. I understand that attributes are hugely important, but I think I'll have my players choose their skills and necessary gear first.

the reasoning is that, skills tell you where you need to place your attributes, but attributes don't necessarily tell you where to place your skills, either to focus on a skill or build out your weaknesses.

so the order goes:
metatype, qualities, core skills/gear, attributes, secondary skills/gear

another thing I decided, is that I'm going to default them with a fixer contact and a vehicle. the reasoning is that these are more team oriented than player oriented. and I don't want one player to have to take the hit on their build points nor do I want them to have to mull over the lack of these things initially.

to balance that, I'm starting them with no money. I'm intending this to be a way to teach them early on to think if money, gear, and alternatives. for example, will expenses be covered in their fee? if they have ample money, they may not really care. they can buy what they need, and negotiating is somewhat trivial. however, if I present the issue that a run will require money, it makes negotiating meaningful and also gets them think about what they will need and hire they can use what they have.

a good/bad thing about the game is the lack of levels. good, it gives everything a more even footing. bad you lose a bit of that sense of progression. so rather than having them choose a lifestyle, that'll basically supplant the notion of levels. no one is going to hire a bum for elite missions, the higher lifestyle you have, the better missions you have, the more money you get, which lets you afford higher lifestyles. I'll also limit contacts, street cred, etc. based on this. the story explanation is that they are new to the city. so they have to build from the ground up.

lastly, before they create their characters, I'm going to have them create the basic frame work for their team. who is the leader, how they operate at meets, combat, etc. knowing who is going to do what helps me, and it also helps them by creating a more natural flow. that way we can focus on more specific tactical deviations then going through motions, and also assure everyone has a place at all times.

thoughts? opinions? genius? madness?

[Fade]

While I don't think how you have it set up is a bad thing, there are a few things you may want to consider:

When first creating a character, have the players concentrate on a character concept.  Right away that will tell them what attributes and subsequent skills to pick.  Say, I want to create an ork cyber-cowboy, I know that I'm going to need a decent amount of agility and reaction, along with an ok body so if I get shot I don't just up and die.  Strength, surprisingly enough, is often a dump stat in SR, as it's really only used for melee combat damage and feats of strength like prying open doors, or pushing an athletics test hard.

All that said, my order generally goes like this:

Concept-->Metatype---> Attributes---> Special stuff (spells/Adept powers/ cyber I know I want)  --->Skills/Gear--->qualities (Unless awakened, at which point I tack that on in the beginning)---> shuffle money/skills around till I get what I want.

As far as expenses on the run, some Johnsons will offer expenses coverage, and others will not.  It really depends on the nature of the job.  Is your team going to be a group that is on retainer for a specific Mr J?  Are they freelancers who work through a variety of fixers to get things done?  Are they working unwittingly for a company?  Do they have a contract with a company for X time and Y gear / health expenses covered?

It's all in the deal that is negotiated.  Sometimes for small potatoes runs, expenses may not even be mentioned, and to do so would prompt the Johnson to basically scoff at the remark.  Other times, especially if travel outside the immediate area is concerned, most expenses such as fake ID's of a basic level and transport will be provided.

Of course, if you need them to spend money, feel free to blow up their vehicles and run up the medical bills.

Levels and lifestyles, well, you're right, no one will hire a bum to go knock over a corp enclave, but at the same time, a bum can disappear and no one will come looking for them.  Runner teams should mostly be professional enough to deal with a Johnson in civil tones up front, mostly regardless of lifestyle.  Just have them keep in mind if they have street or squatter lifestyles, they probably stink, and haven't bathed in some time.  If they aren't, there are always gangs that need courier runs done that pay in street drugs!

As far as the team concept you have set up, it sounds like the set up of a group of company men or mercs.  However you want to do that is fine.  Just be cautious though.  That kind of set up can breed resentment among players with stronger personalities, where they clash with the orders given by the "Team Leader," even if it's set up ahead of time.

[Reaver]

Personally, after almost 25 years of playing RPGs of every sort the one thing I can best say is: "changing/tweeking/ignoring rules can have some pretty huge, un intended consiquences" if the designers took the time to include a certain element into the game, there is usually a reason, even if it not starting you in the face.

As to the order in which you build the character, I too are of the mindset that it doesn't really matter which way you go about it, as long as you observe the base limits. (200 BP max for abilities, 195 BP max for skills, etc) some character are defined by their skills, others by their attributes. But don't ignore the limits unless you are fully prepared for the possible consiquences!

I usually start off the characters with a "group" contact (provides that first run) and go from there. But if a player wants to be well connected and have 2, 3, 12 contacts (and pays for them with BP) I have no problem with that either. One could even argue that it's a poor face that doesn't have at least 3 contacts at character gen! It allows them to be able to do the leg work required for a shadowOp easier (You don't just trust the Johnson's word do you?.... DO YOU?!?!).

No starting money is a double edged sword. While they will be hungry for work and will take the first thing thrown at them, they are also crippled by the fact they can't really function. How do they buy a meal while on stakeout? How do they even get to the meet (can't buy fuel for the car you gave them: more on that later) can't buy a bus ticket or pay for a taxi. Then there are the little practicle things... The characters are created, you give them the job, and they determine the best way in is a zip line... But nobody bought rope!! Well now they can't buy it either! Also, since starting runners have no reputation or street cred to fall back on, getting money upfront from the Johnson could be VERY difficult! The Johnson has no idea if these guys are "pros" who stand by their word, or a bunch of punks who will disappear with the upfront payment. Once the runners have built a rep, then they can start getting some cash upfront, but not till then.

Lifestyle in shadowrun is an abstract concept. It covers allot of small little items into one simple item. You could (in theory) have someone with a squatter lifestyle in a AAA neighborhood, and someone could have a luxuary lifestyle in a Z zone! Each lifestyle gives you an idea about what they eat, how they dress, entertainment they enjoy, and a host of other small little things. The runners have to get into that upscale club? The 'high' lifestyle Runners pulls a dozen outfits outta the closet. The squatter has to go buy clothing. The Mark is a huge 90210 fan? The Middle class Runner orders a few back seasons on PPV to watch, while the street lifestyle Runner fights off a pack if devil rats. Need to split up after a run? The luxuary lifestyle runner chooses between his limo, his sedan and his sports car. The High Runner takes his sports car, the middle Runner uses his transit pass (or maybe is compact), the low runner BUYS a bus ticket, the squatter/street runner walks Never discount a lifestyle, it plays a huge role in the game (to the wise GM) police are less likely to harass someone in a power suit with shoes worth more then they make in a month for the obvious reason that he IS powerful (clothes DO make the man.. TO the man!) Vehicles in the 6th world are expensive to own and operate. Fuel costs an arm and a leg, maintenance is expensive. And that's not even touching of things like what a vehicle says about the driver! Or considering all those little things that grease monkey riggers like to put on their vehicles... Just giving them a car, while sounding like a good idea can really bite you. Who is the vehicle registered to? Who is paying the upkeep??? If all the runners are at squatter lifestyle, they can't afford a cup of soykaff let alone $4.99 a liter of gas!

The lack of levels is one of the greatest things about SR! One of the concepts of leveled games is as you level you gain intrinsic powers (more hp, better/more attacks, better saves, more spells, etc) take DnD, arguably the most popular leveled game out there, at first level when the GM tells you a horde of Orcs comes barreling down on the party, you get a trickle of sweat down your spine. At lvl 10, when your GM tells you a horde of orcs comes barreling down on the party, you roll your eyes and ask the Mage to fireball them. In Shadowrun everything from the gutter punk to the swat team to the elite corp special forces remain a threat to almost every character. Yes a character in SR improves and his abilities grow, but it never (usually) gets to the same rediculous levels that it becomes in other leveled games. After all when your dwarf battlerager has 375 HP, how worried are you about the horde of 100 goblins doing 1d6-1 each (provided they can even hit you!!) in SR the same can not be said. 

Shadowrun doesn't have classes. But it has "roles" a loose definiation of what the concept of character. It also serves as an idea where they should be taking the lead. But speaking more at a ROLE player, then a ROLL player. Sometimes it not possible to shoe horn the "hat of leadership" into a particular concept. I think it's great when a team can come together and assign a leader for every situation! With balanced, thought out characters it should be entirely possible, and the concepts should pave the way. (face in social, negotiations, the samurai is combat, the hacker/TM in matrix acts, the Mage in mystical, etc, etc) however this falls apart if dealing with munchkin characters. I don't care how many anti-rank rounds you can bounce of troll, nor how many heads he can pop at 1000 yards in .001 seconds with his minigun when his CHA, LOG, INI are all 1. The troll is a drooling sack of flesh that gets confused by a revolving door and can barely make sentences of 2 syllable words. This is not a leader in anything and should not be in a command position! (it should be stuck in front of the enemy while the rest of them runs!)
  I have seen great teams that were lead by just one character, I have seen great teams that "passed the hat" around as the situation called for it. Whatever works for the party works. As long as everyone has fun!

[Bastwolf]

One bit of advice for you is to keep a timer handy (if you are using a Mac I recommend the howler timer [FREE app]). If combat/social situations are taking too long, announce to the players that they are now on a timer. This will provoke them to think faster and keep the game moving.

For combat, if a timer ends, the character withholds action.
For non-combat, an NPC intervenes to keep the game moving.

I did this today for my group and they quickly came up with two plans in 2mins for trying to con a cult leader. While plan A did not go exactly as planned, the team had unanimously agreed on it and played it out very well (plan B had our face/mage overcasting a stun bolt on the leader to knock him the F*** out).

[lord_shadow_666]

I have to say build order does not matter, when I made my first SR4 character I had to sit down and do it in order and I wasn't told about contacts. Now I have my back story first, then I build on how that would be or if I want something particular I grab that straight off.

But as something to consider your team might not know each other before the first run and think you know what we work well together, my first game everyone had their own homes until half way through where I moved in with a new guy to the group to cut down costs. But in the campaign I am running I am starting everyone with a 2,2 fixer with possibly with vehicle and accommodation covered, but normally when I play I just steal a vehicle needed for the mission and off we go.

A future run if you do give them a vehicle if they do not wish to buy more between them could just be to either get them a sponsor as such, who can supply them with vehicles from that company. I managed to get my GM to let me have a city master as an 'R' rating instead of 'F' as my character was famous

So you can fiddle some rules just do not break the game too much.