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Creating a Street Samurai

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Operator

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« Reply #30 on: <08-29-12/2249:40> »
The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it.
I just thought of something!
How about I replace the SPAS-22 with an AS-7 with ammo drums, buy the firing selection small mod for full auto at 300 nuyen, add gas vent 2, and go from there?
BAM! A full auto shotgun that's six shells shy from the AA16, but is only 20% of the cost at 1600 nuyen!
Hell, if your GM won't let you have the gas vent 2, just add Personalized Grip and Foregrip for 150 nuyen, or Foregrip and Underbarrel Weight I for 125, or even a Folding Stock and an Underbarrel Weight I for only 55 nuyen!

That can work, but part of the AA16's strength is in its ability to lay down three suppressive fire actions with shot ammo before needing to be reloaded.
« Last Edit: <08-29-12/2252:44> by Operator »

Twitchy D

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« Reply #31 on: <08-29-12/2303:28> »
The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it.
I just thought of something!
How about I replace the SPAS-22 with an AS-7 with ammo drums, buy the firing selection small mod for full auto at 300 nuyen, add gas vent 2, and go from there?
BAM! A full auto shotgun that's six shells shy from the AA16, but is only 20% of the cost at 1600 nuyen!
Hell, if your GM won't let you have the gas vent 2, just add Personalized Grip and Foregrip for 150 nuyen, or Foregrip and Underbarrel Weight I for 125, or even a Folding Stock and an Underbarrel Weight I for only 55 nuyen!

You'll miss out on the AA16's suppressive fire bonus ability and mod space, but that can work. Mind your RC on auto shotguns, as any uncompensated recoil for them is doubled (p.152).
Fine by me! This way a new character can get their hands an autoshotgun just after creation on the cheap, rather then spend 8000 nuyen AND a Restricted Gear quality for the AA16. Hell, put in the foregrip, replace the underbarrel weight with a personalized grip, and keep the folding stock and the result will still cost less, and be a point higher in RC then the AA16.

Wait.
...
OK, now I get it. Still, it's a cheaper alternative for the shadowrunner without connections in the military, megacorps, or the smuggling biz.
« Last Edit: <08-29-12/2309:48> by Twitchy D »

UmaroVI

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« Reply #32 on: <08-30-12/0107:07> »
Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.

The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
« Last Edit: <08-30-12/0113:01> by UmaroVI »

Mara

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« Reply #33 on: <08-30-12/0227:23> »
*looks at the most recent build posted* You know, while it may seem "pointless" for a Street Sam...
In my group, Etiquette is a survival skill. You should always have 1 point of it. With that missing, and
"Hung out to dry"? I don't know about your group, but in mine? You would be a dead man walking.

Mad Hamish

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« Reply #34 on: <08-30-12/0253:05> »
Ah yes the money issue.
Well hard to do much about other than getting out there and run  ;)

Rasmus

Unless you change a negative quality to "In Debt", I'd suggest losing at least "Hung Out To Dry" and possibly "Amnesia"

Twitchy D

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« Reply #35 on: <08-30-12/0849:13> »
*looks at the most recent build posted* You know, while it may seem "pointless" for a Street Sam...
In my group, Etiquette is a survival skill. You should always have 1 point of it. With that missing, and
"Hung out to dry"? I don't know about your group, but in mine? You would be a dead man walking.
That implies that I have a group to play with...  :'(

Twitchy D

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« Reply #36 on: <08-30-12/0918:46> »
Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.

The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.

Twitchy D

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« Reply #37 on: <08-30-12/0929:52> »
And then there's the Ares Slivergun. 8P +5AP. Built-in sound suppression. Burst Fire capabilities. Heavy Pistol concealability. And a clip has about 30 rounds in it. For 25 nuyen more.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #38 on: <08-30-12/1113:03> »
Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.

The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.

Shotguns mostly suck because they are banned from taking a lot of the modifications/accessories that they would need to compete with Automatics. Other than the AA-16, which does have a niche in which it's a solid gun, a properly modded shotgun is just less good than a properly modded AR or BR.

The Remington Roomsweeper is a Pistol that uses some shotgun rules - but it still uses the Pistols skill. It's not a small shotgun, it's a bad pistol. The T-250 still uses Longarms, which is why it's useful despite being kind of meh otherwise. (Also, note that the T-250's 5P is with normal ammo. It's 7P/+4 with shot or flechettes, although you usually want to just use SnS anyways).

Ethan

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« Reply #39 on: <08-30-12/1147:36> »
If you're going Longarms, you gotta accept the suckiness. Or at least, the general awesomeness of the Automatics group of firearms. Battle Rifles may not have the range and hitting power of a Sniper Rifle, especially a Barrett, but it can burst fire.

I know you can technically mod a Sniper Rifle to even go FA, but that's slightly beyond the *cough* scope *cough* of what Sniper Rifles are for.

The sawed-off T-250 is fine for when you need to visibly carry a piece. The Enfield AS-7 is cool as well, though the AA-16 is still the best shottie. There was that new shotgun from GH2, the one with a SS Grenade Launcher, and a Bipod for some reason. It was a law enforcement weapon, for storming in and such. Not meant for protracted battles but it's a good alternative when you get access to GH2.


UmaroVI

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« Reply #40 on: <08-30-12/1200:12> »
Sorta-related note: can you use Martial Arts?

Twitchy D

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« Reply #41 on: <08-30-12/1336:04> »
Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.

The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.

Shotguns mostly suck because they are banned from taking a lot of the modifications/accessories that they would need to compete with Automatics. Other than the AA-16, which does have a niche in which it's a solid gun, a properly modded shotgun is just less good than a properly modded AR or BR.

The Remington Roomsweeper is a Pistol that uses some shotgun rules - but it still uses the Pistols skill. It's not a small shotgun, it's a bad pistol. The T-250 still uses Longarms, which is why it's useful despite being kind of meh otherwise. (Also, note that the T-250's 5P is with normal ammo. It's 7P/+4 with shot or flechettes, although you usually want to just use SnS anyways).

I'm sorry for going off on a tangent on the shotgun thing, it's just that the T-250 seems... underwhelming. Even with a short barrel, a shotgun still is noticible. The bonus to hide that gun does not look all that satisfying, particularly when a heavy pistol gets no modifiers with no gun mods required. Plus if you're trying to suggest the sneaky route for the character, shotguns are terrible. I'm under the assumption that a shot fired from a shotgun makes a loud BLAM! noise. One shot and all subtlety goes out a window. You cannot modify a shotgun to take a silencer mod in the game, from what little books I have. Plus the Magazine capacity looks lousy. Reloading a magazine takes a complex action, replacing a Drum Clip is a complex action. The difference is about 19 rounds! And even if you don't use a drum clip, a standard clip uses a simple action, and on the AS-7 a clip is 10 shots! Plus the Agility=Rounds reloaded for magazines... Guh.

Again, sorry, it's just the T-250 just seems like it's really not worth considering in a catagory people tell me that's not worth considering.

Also, I still have the pistols skill at 4. With my agility at 8, it's at 12 dice to roll.


The sawed-off T-250 is fine for when you need to visibly carry a piece. The Enfield AS-7 is cool as well, though the AA-16 is still the best shottie. There was that new shotgun from GH2, the one with a SS Grenade Launcher, and a Bipod for some reason. It was a law enforcement weapon, for storming in and such. Not meant for protracted battles but it's a good alternative when you get access to GH2.

Exactly! That's what I was aiming for! Kick the door down and cause as much damage as possible. I'll take a look at GH2 when I can afford it, but that'll take a while.

Sorta-related note: can you use Martial Arts?

Not yet. That's going to be something I want to learn IN GAME.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #42 on: <08-30-12/1412:07> »
Well, that's the thing: yeah, the T-250 is not as good as a pistol. But the point is that you can use it and then save the 16 bp to have other skills...like better palming. The concealability difference between the T-250 and a heavy pistol is equivalent to 2 more dice of palming. The T-250 isn't why you take Longarms, it's what you use for concealable weapons if you have Longarms because you wanted the Barrett.

Twitchy D

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« Reply #43 on: <08-30-12/1438:40> »
But I'm not going to take Palming. At all. The Longarms skill is there so I can shoot people in the head from far away or close up, the Infiltration is for finding the best sniping spot and then to hide someplace when they try to come find me. I'm not going for stealth for my main shtick. That's terciary at best. I don't have or even want the stuff to make me a better infiltrator. I'm not an infiltrator. I'm not going to become an infiltrator. I'm honest to god aiming for 70% pink mohawk, 30% black trenchcoat. Bang-Bang shooty fun most of the time.

I just want to kill things dead. Like a generic Fighter build in D&D.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #44 on: <08-30-12/1439:52> »
Then why do you have Pistols?