[sway]

Actually, no.

Jack got the last name (Alvarez), general work field (biotech field), home city (Seattle), known criminal activities (drug dealing, possibly organ-legging), the fact that he was killed recently, and the fact that it was likely gang/syndicate related. Finding out the full name of someone named Alvarez, who works in the biotech field in Seattle and was recently found dead from less-than natural causes would be cake. Even in a large metroplex, that information is so general and public that arguably it should not even have a threshold to succeed. I'm not suggesting the information gathered should be everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow, but from a shadowrunning hacker one would expect more than the same info one would turn up by typing alvarez, seattle, murder, and drugs with say a one month limiter into a typical search engine. If someone is hiring you to gather information for them, that is certainly not where you stop. And of course, the bigger problem is that the data doesn't even TOUCH upon the purpose of the assignment. That is what is commonly called 'failing an assignment'.

Mind you, I don't particularly care that the search was an epic fail. The result is what the GM says it is, period. No argument there. I'm just suggesting that perhaps either I or Jack need to re-evaluate our respective posts. I honestly don't think that Jack would turn in that type of work, especially to a runner. He'd have to know that it would be insufficient for the deal, would likely burn his potential future dealings with Benny, and probably embarrassingly work its way into the shadow community in due course (heck, in there last meeting Benny went on about a different hacker who flubbed a job, so Jack has reason to know that shoddy work will be reported to other runners, johnsons, etc.). I mean, I can alter my post to have Benny refuse the deal and take off, but that would mean Benny probably won't want to work with Jack again and there will probably be bad blood between the two. It'd probably be better for Jack to edit not handing over the data at all, perhaps using his own current situation as an excuse or something. Then the two's working relationship won't be ruined.

Brighter note, no connectivity loss as yet today.

[DireRadiant]

Alvarez is Doc Z's supplier of oxymethadopaminitryclin D. Alvarez is dead. Another supplier is offering oxymethadopaminitryclin D and Doc Z is suspicious and wants Killer-B to attend his meet instead of the Skraachaa he normally uses.

I'm not sure where the drug dealing, organ legging, and gang and syndicates come in, but it is possible that there is nothing more to it than the fact Alvarez is a Crash Cart Nurse with access to oxymethadopaminitryclin D and can sell it to Doc Z. Possibly even legitimately. Given this scenario, the best Data Search in the Matrix wouldn't turn up much more than the information found.

If you want Jack to go on a major Data Trail and Tracking activities of Alvarez, perhaps to identify the last 24 hours of his movements, and who he may have met, and how he may have died, then I have not seen Jack perform those specific Matrix activities.

[sway]

Yes, as noted, I have no problem with that.

What I'm saying is that given that this is all a basic data search turned up and nothing else was done, then it is unreasonable to imagine that Jack would turn that data over as if "job done", when it's clearly not remotely close to what Benny was asking. In light of the results that the search turned up, Jack's player may want to edit his post. It seems unfathomable any hacker/runner would turn that over and expect everything would be fine. The present post reads: <AR| I’m sending a file with the information I found. See you tomorrow>>, as if Jack somehow thinks he's held up his end of the arrangement and he expects Benny to show up now. I have a hard time believing Jack would send only that message along with only that information. Likewise, if he did, then Benny would not have even showed up to the Armadillo and there will now be an issue between him and Jack. I mean, as it stands now, Jack is outright insulting Benny, by implying that his assistance is worth quite literally nothing. I can't wrap my head around Benny not taking offense to that. The question is simply, do I edit my post or does Jack's player edit his?

As for the drug dealing and gang/syndicate stuff, well those are just reasonable assumptions/deductions. They aren't necessarily true or even accurate. Zeke is a street doc who apparently usually brings Ork gangers to transactions to pick up drugs for his underground chop-shop. It seems extremely unlikely his current or former suppliers are legit. Not sure how a Crash Cart nurse could ever legitimately sell Crash Cart drugs to a third party vendor, but selling to a street doc, certainly is never kosher... its a black market business after all). Doc Zeke also specifically said he normally uses Skraacha as backup but needed someone more accomplished this time (referring to Benny, whose a fairly violence-oriented runner). This suggests a certain anticipated threat level. Given that we're dealing with what again seems to be illegal drug sales, local gangs or syndicates are the frontrunner culprits.  This assumption was reenforced when Zeke opted not to correct or comment on Benny throwing out the Yakuza. Which is primary reason why Benny is concerned with intel at all. The Doc didn't scoff at the Yakuza suggestion. Still just assumptions/deductions, but not unreasonable ones.     

I do apologize for the apparent friction this has seemingly caused.

[DireRadiant]

Doc Z was only referring to the Skraachaa in the context of bringing to a meet to a new potential supplier. Not in context of the regular drug purchase with an established supplier.

In any case, if you expect Jack to dig in really deeply about Alvarez, then that is a far more extensive set of matrix activities for him to undertake. It's not a simple data search test. And Jack needs to do it.

For my game at least, Data Search isn't a magical find out everything you need to know button. It'll be useful, but primarily in giving an overall context and general direction.

If you'd like for that information to be gathered, it's certainly available and within the capabilities of Jack himself or his friends, but it does take a bit more Matrix work, and dice rolls to look for specific things.

[bmoham]

When I have some time I'll address this (and the IC post) more fully, but Jack would have sent Benny something "useful". There really shouldn't be need to edit either IC post. I'm pretty sure Jack is very good at this sort of thing, and had quite a few hours to work on it (since he didn't sleep the night before the meet and with 3 IPs plus an agent should be able to keep a lookout and also do some matrix work).
We can continue to work out OOC what the "right" rolls are, and what constitutes a reasonable level of success. 

[DireRadiant]

Some suggestions.
Alvarez's movements for a time period(You aren't Tracing a live icon, but looking at the history of it's activity)
Track + Data Search(Threshold 16)
- Increase threshold by 3 for every extra 24 hours further back you go

Alvarez's Video/audio/Tred surveillance information
Hacking + Spoof(Threshold 6)
Or
Hacking + Exploit(Threshold 4)
- Increase threshold by 3 for every extra 24 hours further back you go

Alvarez Autopsy file
Hacking + Exploit(Threshold 6)

Alvarez Crash Cart Employment file
Hacking + Exploit(Threshold

Let me know if you have some other ideas on specific data you'd be interested in.

[bmoham]

" typing alvarez, seattle, murder, and drugs with say a one month limiter into a typical search engine."
...would get you nothing. Since he's listed as dying of natural causes.

I have to disagree with the idea that the info Jack pulled in was even close to nothing. He got a first name and some /wrong/ information. For example, Alvarez apparently not a smuggler, and his murder isn't listed and wasn't investigated as such. He's a Crash Cart Nurse that died of an overdose. It would be a pretty tough job to get as much as Jack got with that. And Jack was asked for info on Alvarez and told "anything would be useful". Jack got  a full name, family ties, and corrected misconceptions about what happened. Now it's sounding like he's supposed to solve the murder.

Assuming IC communication was clearer that OOC, Jack would be happy to do some more digging (as I said, he had the time) but the idea that handing that sort of info would somehow be shameful and ruin Jack's rep is one I'd have to disagree with.

Given DireRadiant's list of the possible, what sort of info does Benny expect?

[Gaius]

@bmoham did you see that Jenever wrote Jack at 14:03 on Sunday?

[bmoham]

@bmoham did you see that Jenever wrote Jack at 14:03 on Sunday?

Nope.

Sorry, will reply now.

[bmoham]

So, the contacting him ahead of time thing - I really do think that Basset needs to be alone, so he isn't posturing for his crew.
That said, you might have high enough etiquette (or whatever DR thinks would be the roll) to get him to meet you one on one, but i would think it an easier roll to just convince him over the phone (or in VR, or whatever) to let the whole thing drop - and avoid any face to face meet at all. I don't imagine intimidate would be very effective over the phone (which is why Jack wouldn't really see this angle) but maybe a remote negotiation roll could settle the whole thing? Then we can move on to hunting dire kittens - and getting paid.

 

[Necrogigas]

So, the contacting him ahead of time thing - I really do think that Basset needs to be alone, so he isn't posturing for his crew.
That said, you might have high enough etiquette (or whatever DR thinks would be the roll) to get him to meet you one on one, but i would think it an easier roll to just convince him over the phone (or in VR, or whatever) to let the whole thing drop - and avoid any face to face meet at all. I don't imagine intimidate would be very effective over the phone (which is why Jack wouldn't really see this angle) but maybe a remote negotiation roll could settle the whole thing? Then we can move on to hunting dire kittens - and getting paid.

I recognize the merits of your plan, but you don't have to convince me. You have to convince Mr. Smith, the guy who hasn't quit grasped how differently business is conducted in the shadows than from the boardroom.

[bmoham]

So, the contacting him ahead of time thing - I really do think that Basset needs to be alone, so he isn't posturing for his crew.
That said, you might have high enough etiquette (or whatever DR thinks would be the roll) to get him to meet you one on one, but i would think it an easier roll to just convince him over the phone (or in VR, or whatever) to let the whole thing drop - and avoid any face to face meet at all. I don't imagine intimidate would be very effective over the phone (which is why Jack wouldn't really see this angle) but maybe a remote negotiation roll could settle the whole thing? Then we can move on to hunting dire kittens - and getting paid.

I recognize the merits of your plan, but you don't have to convince me. You have to convince Mr. Smith, the guy who hasn't quit grasped how differently business is conducted in the shadows than from the boardroom.

fair enough. I'll give it a try. Though jack is only rolling one die on this. I need to think of something that is persuasive and not offensive but still inelegant. The best lesson might be for you to try your way and fail. Or for someone else with gang knowledge to support Jack's point.

In the meantime, do we really think 3 is the magic number? Who should be the third? And would anyone like to volunteer to scout the area out ahead of time?

Also, DireRadiant - I'm guessing I'll need a fake SIN to be able to get to get out of the barrens and actually visit this guy and a better track program to keep tabs on his location - would the Armadillos be willing to sell me them on credit? I'm perfectly happy with a pirated verstion of the track program, but I've only got 1000 nuyen.

[Ethan]

Saint will volunteer to do astral recon if you guys watch his food for him.

I'll be RP'ing this in IC, but you guys should notice that Saint eats only with his left hand. He even picks up his drink with his left hand--the flesh and bone one. The right he leaves casually on the table. You may think it's because he wants to keep the dangerous one free to grab a gun quickly and so on, but it's a sign that he's not that comfortable at all with the thing.

[DireRadiant]

I recognize the merits of your plan, but you don't have to convince me. You have to convince Mr. Smith, the guy who hasn't quit grasped how differently business is conducted in the shadows than from the boardroom.

We all know the boardroom is far bloodier than the streets.

[DireRadiant]

Also, DireRadiant - I'm guessing I'll need a fake SIN to be able to get to get out of the barrens and actually visit this guy and a better track program to keep tabs on his location - would the Armadillos be willing to sell me them on credit? I'm perfectly happy with a pirated verstion of the track program, but I've only got 1000 nuyen.

Another alternative is to Spoof a real SIN for a short time. It's really a matter of having a legitimate accessID being broadcasted with a valid SIN attached.  You only need the SIN to work if someone actually bothers to check it.

Computer + Analyze to see a real accessID(Threshhold 1)/SIN(Threshhold 6) to copy.(You 'd have to be somewhere where you could see someone else's real accessID and SIN being used.
Hacking/Computer + Spoof to broadcast that copied accessID/SIN(Threshold 2)

You can also simply go in Hidden mode and avoid specific areas. Another is to use a vehicle that has legitimate access.... If you only knew some people with vehicles that can travel in and out of various zones and smuggle stuff so you could be smuggled to this meet.