[TheHug]

So I have gotten a few games in now with a group. Most are new to tabletop in general, and we are all new to SR. Because SR is BIG and has TONS of options at character creation which can be intimidating, one way I have simplified things is by pretty much ignoring ammunition (besides grenades and stuff). I figure if someone glitches it means they need to reload or something.

Was wondering if most people find that using full ammo/clip rules really adds to gameplay, or just ends up bogging things down in bean counting. I like the idea of the runners tracking supplies and expenses and all that, but seeing as most battles only last a round or two, tracking every bullet and clip seems excessive.

Thoughts/experiences?

[wylie]

in the end, it will depend on your GM

In my experience, regular ammo is rarely counted. The same for Stick & Shock.
with special ammo, like APDS, its counted, as it is hard to get.

now of course during the game you need to aleast a rough count in case during a fight you run out of ammo and need to buy more.
Ruger Thunderbolts will eat through bullets like crazy, for example. A Warhawk on the other hand will not consume bullets at an alarming rate.

Most battles, in my experience, do not get past the first clip. two/ three shots from most runners and most of the bad guys are gone/ down.

if you just want an opinion, other then the rough count (do not need that guy who buys 10 bullets, yet seems to shoot all day long), don't worry about the bullets, and don't bog down game play

lot of it is the honor system.

[Teknodragon]

As a player, I keep a tally of how much I use next to the gun stats on my sheet. As a GM, I had a player comment last session that it was the first firefight in ages that he had to (or was about to) reload.

[Mantis]

I usually record ammo used, no matter what type it is. Sometimes it adds to the drama, especially when you didn't bring enough ammo for the fight you got into. Pistols tend to not chew through the bullets much but anything with burst or full auto will go through them quickly. We like our game a little more realistic and less Hollywood style with unlimited ammo. You can get some good mileage out of having the wrong ammo loaded for a job as well. Prepped for anti-vehicle ops and end up having to try and take down some cops without killing them all. Things like that.

[Noble Drake]

As a Shadowrun GM for the bulk of my gamer "career" I have always felt that keeping close watch on ammo used, ammo carried on a run, and ever last little detail that can be adequately tracked with tallies and numbers on the character sheet is one of the most effective tools in conveying the setting and style of the game to the players - make them want to avoid a firefight if at all possible (even the weapons specialists) because they can only carry so many guns and bullets without it hindering them with weight or awkward bulk so it becomes not only dangerous because of the shooting, but also dangerous because they might get caught empty-chambered and stuck in a hostile situation.

It's not for everyone though, as not every SR GM and player out there likes that level of "life can get you killed" in their game.

I use Hero Lab character sheets to help the players keep track of ammo, since it has little check boxes for the rounds in the weapon and well organized listings of ammo types with a blank before the total number of rounds you owned of that type for that weapon (____/120 for example).

[Kayzie]

I let my players always state on a separate sheet for me what their characters have on them or in their vehicle they currently use.
Too many times a player tried to pull out gadget xyz which was savely stored in his safehouse, or was reloading his gun with the APDS clips hidden under the driver seat. Although they do not want to get caught in AAA areas without the proper papers.

Makes them think twice what to take with them and what not. So far it did not slow down progress, today they do this little trick without even asking.

[Teknodragon]

I let my players always state on a separate sheet for me what their characters have on them or in their vehicle they currently use.
Too many times a player tried to pull out gadget xyz which was savely stored in his safehouse, or was reloading his gun with the APDS clips hidden under the driver seat. Although they do not want to get caught in AAA areas without the proper papers.

Makes them think twice what to take with them and what not. So far it did not slow down progress, today they do this little trick without even asking.

This, too. I have a habit of marking gear normally carried unless specifically stated. It goes both ways--no 'forgetting' to bring something, but also not always remembering to leave that bit of Forbidden gear at home...

[farothel]

I've never seen counting ammo slow a game down.  I also have those character sheets with the little checkboxes so after I've done my shot and all other players are doing theirs, there's more than enough time to mark down the number of bullets used.

And I've played this one character (my first shadowrun character actually) where I really had to count, since she was build as duel machine pistol wielding with three IP.  Burst fire let's you fire twice per IP, so that meant 18 bullets per gun per combat round.

While we count bullets during a run, we almost never count regular bullets between runs.  It's assumed that you go and buy some more when you're almost out and they don't cost all that much.  Special stuff is different of course.

[WellsIDidIt]

Counting Ammo should never be too time consuming to perform for players.
Step A) Dot the side of your sheet with the number of rounds in your magazine.
Step B) Invest in Paper Clips.
Step C) Use paper clips to slide down rounds as you pop them off.

A few older games used to print their sheets set up for this method. If you feel artistic, you can draw bullets instead of dots.

The only time I've ever had issues tracking ammo was as a GM. I usually have my low PR mooks reload often just to keep things from drawing past the point I'll remember. High PR mooks I keep track of more carefully, but they tend to operate in smaller numbers. I usually just use a note card or notepad for combat notes (Initiative totals, ammo counts, ammo types loaded, special effects and duration, etc.). Nothing like launching a load of flechettes into the lock before realizing you haven't switched mags yet.

[Scarecrow71]

As a player, I use Chummer for character creation, so when I've gotten the character approved by the GM I'll move him to career mode.  Then I go to the weapons tab, where Chummer allows you to "Load" the weapon with ammo.  Then in-game, I just click the "Fire" button in Chummer, and it subtracts the round(s) fired automatically.  When it hits zero in the current clip, I have to click "Reload", assuming I have enough ammo left.


As a GM, I believe we are all adults and I let my players go on the honor system.  As long as they don't go full auto all the time (or full auto over the course of several CTs in a single combat), I'm not going to get all uppity over their ammo counts.  I do occasionally ask my players to deduct some creds to show they've purchased more ammo, but that would only happen after a couple of major firefights.

[Kat9]

Personally, I use Hero Labs (Chummer is a nice system too) to handle things like where gear is stored as well as tracking ammo. After every session I save my profiles (ammo spent and all). If the GM asks for a fresh copy, I can zip it right over to him via skype or email as needed.

But then, I like bookkeeping when I am a player, its like a survival horror game to me. I make each shot count if I am in a gunfight because I know I only have three clips on me.

[JustADude]

As a player, I use Chummer for character creation, so when I've gotten the character approved by the GM I'll move him to career mode.  Then I go to the weapons tab, where Chummer allows you to "Load" the weapon with ammo.  Then in-game, I just click the "Fire" button in Chummer, and it subtracts the round(s) fired automatically.  When it hits zero in the current clip, I have to click "Reload", assuming I have enough ammo left.

Also leads to the occasional piece of hilarious awesomeness:

We were in a minor fire-fight because a new guy in the group, who was new and still thinking like D&D (aka "bust in and kill everything"), decided to kick down the door and start shooting when we were just supposed to go talk to some low-life thugs.

Bullets were flying, but we needed to keep someone alive for questioning, so another player (a sniper/infiltrator using a Barrett with a dual-mag modification) decided to peg one of the guys with a stick'n'shock. He was using Chummer, and had the wrong magazine selected when he his "Fire!"

The other magazine was loaded with APDS.

Instead of being all "Oops, lemme fix this," he rolled with it and decided that his character had derped up and had the wrong magazine selected. Thus resulting resulting in the exchange of:

"Oops..."
"Whadda ya mean 'Oops'. You blew the guy's fraggin' head apart in one shot!"
"Yeah, but I meant to use Stick'n'Shock."
"Oh. Well, not like he's the last one left, right?"

[TheHug]

Good to get a diversity of opinion. Think I will hold off on counting standard ammo until everyone gets a little more comfortable with the system. We play once a month if lucky so it may take some time.

While on the subject of players barging in to kill everything. I do need to encourage them to do a little more recon before they go up against anything too nasty.

[Xzylvador]

I do think it's something that should be recorded. Though it does fall in the category of stuff which, as a GM, I trust players to keep track of themselves. A GM's got enough other stuff to keep track of, especially in combat.
Even if you don't use smart systems (I love that paperclip thing, WellsIDidIt!), just writing down "Ammo: 24 18 12" after 2 long bursts shouldn't be too much math or management for a player to get overwhelmed.

[Black]

As a player, I use Chummer for character creation, so when I've gotten the character approved by the GM I'll move him to career mode.  Then I go to the weapons tab, where Chummer allows you to "Load" the weapon with ammo.  Then in-game, I just click the "Fire" button in Chummer, and it subtracts the round(s) fired automatically.  When it hits zero in the current clip, I have to click "Reload", assuming I have enough ammo left.

Also leads to the occasional piece of hilarious awesomeness:

We were in a minor fire-fight because a new guy in the group, who was new and still thinking like D&D (aka "bust in and kill everything"), decided to kick down the door and start shooting when we were just supposed to go talk to some low-life thugs.

Bullets were flying, but we needed to keep someone alive for questioning, so another player (a sniper/infiltrator using a Barrett with a dual-mag modification) decided to peg one of the guys with a stick'n'shock. He was using Chummer, and had the wrong magazine selected when he his "Fire!"

The other magazine was loaded with APDS.

Instead of being all "Oops, lemme fix this," he rolled with it and decided that his character had derped up and had the wrong magazine selected. Thus resulting resulting in the exchange of:

"Oops..."
"Whadda ya mean 'Oops'. You blew the guy's fraggin' head apart in one shot!"
"Yeah, but I meant to use Stick'n'Shock."
"Oh. Well, not like he's the last one left, right?"

Brilliant!  Now thats a great player.  +1 for the story and please pass on my admiration to the player in question.  He must be a dream to Gm for