[Mirikon]

Smoke grenades are pretty close to "technological defeat of magic" and they are only few nuyens each. Make it thermal smoke if you're facing a cybermage, wear a chamelen suit, ultrasound sensor and a monowire sword, and walk softly. He cannot kill what he cannot see and power has (probably) blinded him long ago. Grenade launchers work well too, mages tend to be weaker on dodge (no reaction 6+ like a proper streetsam), grenades have that annoying -2 to dodge for being area effect, so they get to know how it feels being hit by a fireball.

Then they turn on their astral sight... and Manabolt you anyway. As long as they're still in their bodies, they can still hit you.

Which is why you kill them before they know you're there. Or instead mix in one of those 'Petite Broume' or however it is spelled grenades from Arsenal that imposes visibility mods on the astral. Most mages don't walk around constantly watching the astral, afterall. Don't give them a reason to look until it is too late.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Use some FAB ...

[JustADude]

Use some FAB ...

Was just about to suggest that. Specifically FAB-IIb, which increases the Threshold of all Assensing tests by 2. That means they need to get 3 hits on Assensing just to be able to see you with Astral Sight, while regular vision only takes a -2 penalty for Light Mist.

Also, they'd have a short "shelf life", but you could probably mix a unit of FAB-IIb and a unit of FAB Nutrients into a smoke grenade to get the double whammy going.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

[The_Gun_Nut]

The hard part is spotting the mage before you get cooked.  I don't mean physically seeing her/him, I mean identifying the target as a mage in the first place.  This isn't like trope laden fantasy settings where the mage is always walking around wearing robes and carrying a staff.  The mage is wearing the same armor as everyone else on his team and is carrying the same weapon they are because that is the smart thing to do.

Hell, the mage could use the visual sights on his weapon to get a better look at you to target you, and you would be just as dead as if he pulled the trigger.

[CanRay]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

From what I remember of the cartoon, the other half seems to be violence.

[Mirikon]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

From what I remember of the cartoon, the other half seems to be violence.

In which visible laser weapons blow up vehicles in a single shot, and yet leave the pilots completely unharmed.

The hard part is spotting the mage before you get cooked.  I don't mean physically seeing her/him, I mean identifying the target as a mage in the first place.  This isn't like trope laden fantasy settings where the mage is always walking around wearing robes and carrying a staff.  The mage is wearing the same armor as everyone else on his team and is carrying the same weapon they are because that is the smart thing to do.

Hell, the mage could use the visual sights on his weapon to get a better look at you to target you, and you would be just as dead as if he pulled the trigger.

Not quite true, Gunny. A corpsec mage will often have some trapping of his tradition on his person (especially if they use fetishes, foci, or talismans), and their armor will often be lighter, since the mage doesn't spend as much time with the physical training as the guy carrying the LMG on a gyromount. They also have a higher likelihood of bringing melee weapons to the party, for their use as weapon foci, among other things. So if you see a squad of boys in heavy milspec, and one guy in light milspec, with a sword at his side, then kill him first. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but in general mages and hackers tend to make themselves stand out, especially as the gunbunnies start doing their thing.

[beowulf_of_wa]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

From what I remember of the cartoon, the other half seems to be violence.

In which visible laser weapons blow up vehicles in a single shot, and yet leave the pilots completely unharmed.

anti-tech weaponry in a non-cyber world. ok, very limited cyber.

[The_Gun_Nut]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

From what I remember of the cartoon, the other half seems to be violence.

In which visible laser weapons blow up vehicles in a single shot, and yet leave the pilots completely unharmed.

The hard part is spotting the mage before you get cooked.  I don't mean physically seeing her/him, I mean identifying the target as a mage in the first place.  This isn't like trope laden fantasy settings where the mage is always walking around wearing robes and carrying a staff.  The mage is wearing the same armor as everyone else on his team and is carrying the same weapon they are because that is the smart thing to do.

Hell, the mage could use the visual sights on his weapon to get a better look at you to target you, and you would be just as dead as if he pulled the trigger.

Not quite true, Gunny. A corpsec mage will often have some trapping of his tradition on his person (especially if they use fetishes, foci, or talismans), and their armor will often be lighter, since the mage doesn't spend as much time with the physical training as the guy carrying the LMG on a gyromount. They also have a higher likelihood of bringing melee weapons to the party, for their use as weapon foci, among other things. So if you see a squad of boys in heavy milspec, and one guy in light milspec, with a sword at his side, then kill him first. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but in general mages and hackers tend to make themselves stand out, especially as the gunbunnies start doing their thing.

That is absolutely not true.  Still a trope from fantasy.

The security folks will physically train the mage so that he can carry the same armor as everyone else.  Because doing otherwise is really stupid. 

Carrying an object that is too large to be safely tucked into one's armor which is also large enough to be spotted at a distance which can identify you as someone to kill right now, is incredibly stupid.

The stupid one's died off in the 20's and 30's.  The one's we have now are those that either A:  figured this out already or B:  were trained by corpsec not to do something this stupid.  Officers in the military don't wear highly visible and identifiable indicators of their rank in the field just for this reason.  It's painting a bullseye on yourself to do this.

Hackers don't need to be there in person to support their team, unless they and their team are the one's doing the raid.

Here's a broad stroke piece of intel/advice:  If it's something that would increase the likelyhood of getting YOU killed IRL, why would someone in a fictional setting do so?  If the answer is "to make it easier for the PC's to kill her/him" then consider it a Bad Idea ^(TM).

[foolofsound]

Remember that Force 6+ spells are readily apparent when cast (Threshold of 0), so the mage will, in general, get of exactly one spell before everyone knows who he is. Also, I doubt that wagemage is going to be willing to risk himself serious injury unless his life is immediately and directly on the line, so that first spell isn't likely to be a Force 10 Stunball.

[Zilfer]

Remember that Force 6+ spells are readily apparent when cast (Threshold of 0), so the mage will, in general, get of exactly one spell before everyone knows who he is. Also, I doubt that wagemage is going to be willing to risk himself serious injury unless his life is immediately and directly on the line, so that first spell isn't likely to be a Force 10 Stunball.

>.> a few things..... first you can spend edge to exceed the hits so casting F3 or lower isn't a problem for most mage with good dice pools. Most can exceed the force and do like they had casted a higher force spell.

Second, you just said the very first thing I would do if there are more than 3 enemies. xD

[All4BigGuns]

It really does come down to information - knowing what you're going up against.  In the immortal words of GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle."

From what I remember of the cartoon, the other half seems to be violence.

In which visible laser weapons blow up vehicles in a single shot, and yet leave the pilots completely unharmed.

The hard part is spotting the mage before you get cooked.  I don't mean physically seeing her/him, I mean identifying the target as a mage in the first place.  This isn't like trope laden fantasy settings where the mage is always walking around wearing robes and carrying a staff.  The mage is wearing the same armor as everyone else on his team and is carrying the same weapon they are because that is the smart thing to do.

Hell, the mage could use the visual sights on his weapon to get a better look at you to target you, and you would be just as dead as if he pulled the trigger.

Not quite true, Gunny. A corpsec mage will often have some trapping of his tradition on his person (especially if they use fetishes, foci, or talismans), and their armor will often be lighter, since the mage doesn't spend as much time with the physical training as the guy carrying the LMG on a gyromount. They also have a higher likelihood of bringing melee weapons to the party, for their use as weapon foci, among other things. So if you see a squad of boys in heavy milspec, and one guy in light milspec, with a sword at his side, then kill him first. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but in general mages and hackers tend to make themselves stand out, especially as the gunbunnies start doing their thing.

That is absolutely not true.  Still a trope from fantasy.

The security folks will physically train the mage so that he can carry the same armor as everyone else.  Because doing otherwise is really stupid. 

Carrying an object that is too large to be safely tucked into one's armor which is also large enough to be spotted at a distance which can identify you as someone to kill right now, is incredibly stupid.

The stupid one's died off in the 20's and 30's.  The one's we have now are those that either A:  figured this out already or B:  were trained by corpsec not to do something this stupid.  Officers in the military don't wear highly visible and identifiable indicators of their rank in the field just for this reason.  It's painting a bullseye on yourself to do this.

Hackers don't need to be there in person to support their team, unless they and their team are the one's doing the raid.

Here's a broad stroke piece of intel/advice:  If it's something that would increase the likelyhood of getting YOU killed IRL, why would someone in a fictional setting do so?  If the answer is "to make it easier for the PC's to kill her/him" then consider it a Bad Idea ^(TM).

That's the thing, mages not training as much physically isn't because it "makes them easier to kill", that is merely an unfortunate side effect. It's just like someone going for a PhD as opposed to someone training to try for an Olympic gold medal, the PhD person won't be as physically tough/strong nor have the endurance of the Olympian. Now this isn't to say that the first could never reach that point, after all, isn't that what more experience is for? To improve.

[Kot]

A little bit about barriers in the astral: If it's not dual-natured, you can stick your head through it, or even walk through. So, you can take a peek through 10 meters of concrete and steel. That's why any corp outpost with resources has Barriers first, wagemages second. Barriers can be bought, as can be patrolling spirits.

As for security mages, they are primarily used for Astral and Magical security (obviously, you buy a hammer to hit nails). Dealing with intruders on the astral, summoning spirit patrols, maintaining watchers in key areas, and such. Plus they should also server as advisors if magical threats are present. And who said they can't support security troops with Counterspelling and surveillance from the astral? Remember that an astrally projecting mage is as fast as a wired street sam. And he moves with blinding speed.

[foolofsound]

>.> a few things..... first you can spend edge to exceed the hits so casting F3 or lower isn't a problem for most mage with good dice pools. Most can exceed the force and do like they had casted a higher force spell.

Second, you just said the very first thing I would do if there are more than 3 enemies. xD

Wagemages (and non-prime runner enemies in general) shouldn't have Edge (other than group Edge, which should be used sparingly). Edge is a PC/important NPC resource. Second, a wagemage isn't going to be willing to inflict physical damage on himself (physical damage from overcast being things like concussions and other nasty effects) in order to fry some runners, unless his own life is clearly and immediately on the line.

Wagemages are likely to also have some sort of visible focus (most traditions' foci are either fairly apparent, or else require manipulation to use); the problem is identifying what that may be. Wagemages are likely to wear lighter armor (or at least Softweave/Mobility enhanced armor), since they are likely to have a lower Body score (lower physical training, and all).

[Zilfer]

Yes they'd have shared edge... and you use it when it's most important to get the team's objective done. (well if the mage can flatten the runner team with a F10 Stun ball or a low cast stun ball without taking physical by casting it under his magic) let 'em have it. I'm sure a wageslave has more than the gangers edge pool of 0-1.

and as for 'light armor" i'm sure there's adepts running around with melee weapons as well so your not going to know %100 percent by looking for those. <.< Also most mages aren't going to make it obvious at first that they are the mage because they most definately know the first rule of shadowrun "Geek the Mage first" So their going to do everything in their power to make sure they don't get shot at first. Whether that's casting low and edging, or dressing like the security personel in heavy armor. (Do they have power armor yet?)