[WhackedMaki]

If you want your team to be much starter-runners, then yes. 300 BP is reasonable. Anything exotic gets shut down instantly, as it's pretty much impossible to do anything outside the typical metavariants with it, but you'll typically end up with a bunch of people who only have 1 or 2 IP's, and no armor or weapons worth a darn. There's really no room to spend any Karma on money when you only have 300, so you should plan on giving them equipment for free if you have them start like this.

However, your main first point seems to have been that the technomancer with only 1 IP seemed to feel left out from everyone. Keep in mind that technomancers have 3 IP when they go VR. If there wasn't anything for him to do there, that's not IP's fault. That's poor mission planning, or poor character creation. Picking up a drone or two in character creation and putting some guns on them would give him something to do with those 3 IP's right along side the rest of the party. If he didn't pick any up, and you gave him nothing to hack, then yes. He'll feel left out, because he was. However, as soon as matrix things start happening, he won't feel very effective if you cut down his 3 (and later potential for 5, yes technomancers can get 5 with some karma) IP's, because hacking is usually a multi-IP process. If he's never able to hack through a simple door faster then the street samurai is able to hack his way through it, he'll never feel like he will have a place.

[Csjarrat]

bear in mind that 300BP characters wont be very good at most things, so you'll have to scale difficulty back quite a bit, and maybe give your team a vehicle instead of having to have someone use valuable  (and scarce!) BP on one.

[JustADude]

bear in mind that 300BP characters wont be very good at most things, so you'll have to scale difficulty back quite a bit, and maybe give your team a vehicle instead of having to have someone use valuable  (and scarce!) BP on one.

Or just have them take auto-cabs everywhere.

[Csjarrat]

hehe, i can just imagine trying to hail a cab outside a renraku facility as the alarm goes off and the response team are shooting at you :-)
cab-"please enter your destination"
runner-"anywhere, just effing drive!!"
cab-"destination not recognised, please retry"
runner *dead*

[Decade Rider]

Yeah IP can be hard to manage if your a new GM like me....I had my street sam ton and a rigger go thru a warehouse of 20 thugs like it was nothing.


One nice thing i found to do if you want to get a better feel of combat and if your players agree to help is put your team in a warehouse and do "Horde Mode" make round of encounters...your player get ammo and health back each round and the ennemy get tougher and more diverse each round..i know its a bit silly but it helped me alot

[foolofsound]

Thing was in the game they werent professional hitman persay

They were a pair of russian mobsters with some contacts and a smuggler all with wired reflex.

But thats the thing, i dont want my game to be about veterans. I want it to be about professional or barely professional runners. How many bps would that take 300?

Karma system is actually better for making more versatile, but less powerful characters. Give them 550 (maybe 600) Karma instead. You might also ask the players to justify their choices (how did you learn that skill up to 6?; how did you pay for your synaptic boosters?).

[Orvich]

Since no one spoke to this:

The reason that 3 IPs is less of a boost over 2 than 2 is over 1 is this:

1 IP = 1 action per round
2 IP = 2 actions per round, a 100% increase! You move twice as many times as someone with only 1 IP!

2 IP = 2 actions
3 IP = 3 actions. That's only a 50% increase, you move 1.5 times as someone with only 2 IPs.

Similarly, you only act 33% more times that someone with 3 IPs if you have 4.

[Decade Rider]

Since no one spoke to this:

The reason that 3 IPs is less of a boost over 2 than 2 is over 1 is this:

1 IP = 1 action per round
2 IP = 2 actions per round, a 100% increase! You move twice as many times as someone with only 1 IP!

2 IP = 2 actions
3 IP = 3 actions. That's only a 50% increase, you move 1.5 times as someone with only 2 IPs.

Similarly, you only act 33% more times that someone with 3 IPs if you have 4.

33% 1v1 but in big encounter i can tell you it sucks to have 1 or 2 IP when the whole group and half the enemy had 3 IP..make it 2 teamates and 4 ennemy (so 3 runner vs 4 enemy) at 3 ip each..thats 18 action before its your turn again...combine that with how ouchy some things are (melee specialist with high DV ,multiple burst called shots ect) And your gonna fell that 3 IP is almost mandatory

[foolofsound]

33% 1v1 but in big encounter i can tell you it sucks to have 1 or 2 IP when the whole group and half the enemy had 3 IP..make it 2 teamates and 4 ennemy (so 3 runner vs 4 enemy) at 3 ip each..thats 18 action before its your turn again...combine that with how ouchy some things are (melee specialist with high DV ,multiple burst called shots ect) And your gonna fell that 3 IP is almost mandatory

If your enemies both outnumber you and are more competent than you, what the hell are you doing trying to fight them?

[Decade Rider]

2 reasons

First You dont know what your opponent as for gear just by the looks of it ( ok some of it is obvious but wired reflex arent

Second You dont always pick your fight in shadowrun..sometimes you get ambushed, double crossed..or even opposition isint what intel told you sure sometime you can run but other times your stuck fighting for your life

[Mara]

But thats the thing, i dont want my game to be about veterans. I want it to be about professional or barely professional runners. How many bps would that take 300?

As I said, the 400 is representing about a year in the shadows. I am more inclined to say 350 if you want them to be
skilled, but not screwed. 300 is the "We are just gangers!" level. One thing I noticed you mentioning was that they
used very little, over all, of their BP for gear. Were you watching the availability levels of what they were getting?
Were they getting things modded(which drives prices up real quick). Also, I would play up that it is easier to detect
cyber-ware then Bioware.

Russian Mobsters? as in Vory? Are you playing up the stuff about the Vory with them? Are they actually the Vory equivalent of "Made Men"? or are they wannabes? I can see a smuggler having Wired...I would also expect the smuggler to have a VCR, and kick ass command program, and an expensively modded vehicle. As for the Vory, well...what is their job? If they are soldiers for their bosses, out there fighting the other gangs, etc...I could see them going with Wired, as it is cheap and
easy(ish) to get compared to the better options like synaptic booster and move-by-wire.

Also....I see one thing you can easily do to counter the combat monkey-ness of them: throw some NON-COMBAT runs at them.
If they are so elite, though....then it calls for a) the creation of a long term storyline and b) The Sandwich.

[foolofsound]

2 reasons

First You dont know what your opponent as for gear just by the looks of it ( ok some of it is obvious but wired reflex arent

Second You dont always pick your fight in shadowrun..sometimes you get ambushed, double crossed..or even opposition isint what intel told you sure sometime you can run but other times your stuck fighting for your life

Wired Reflexes are obvious in effect, in not appearance. What I meant by my previous question is: Why are you not attempting to flee the enemy that both outnumbers and outclasses you, once this becomes apparent?

[Decade Rider]

Not every players want to run away at the first sign of resistance..i mean i won fight while outnumbered..sometimes its for challenge ( love getting myself beat up to learn what my limits ) sometimes some guy on your crew wanted some cheap BP and picked combat monster and im no one to drop my teamates now matter how dumb they are..other times the GM makes it so you cant walk away from it.

I was just explaining that IP 3 from wired reflex,improved reflex or increase reflex or what ever can get you some IP is nigh mendatory if you want to be effective..or just survive

[foolofsound]

I was just explaining that IP 3 from wired reflex,improved reflex or increase reflex or what ever can get you some IP is nigh mendatory if you want to be effective..or just survive

It's really not though. Having more IP is very helpful, but the advantage isn't overwhelming unless your opponent has at least 2 more than you.

Like I said, there is no reason that anyone expecting combat should have only 1 IP. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Only people who need to excel in combat (street sams, rapid response teams) need more IPs.

[Decade Rider]

Im not saying its tough to get..im saying he is right thats its mandatory to some extend. especially with numbers..just put some squishy runner..a technomancer or a face thats pro built for there roles (not optimal by some people standards i know but im setting examples here)
Just put 2 cops with some Cram..its nothing very threatening to combat runners but if they decide to hit your squishy (wich they might very do vs techno or mage) or heck even a combat runner street sam..if they get those 4 shots of stun baton.

So your right that IP isint threatening until your opponent has +2 over you but in team fight when people start focusing you really feel those +1 IP times 7