[Mirikon]

One of the reason that actual design rules would be nice, Mithlas.

[WellsIDidIt]

Availability and Cost seem to be all over the board. There is no real rhyme or reason to them from what I've seen. I remember seeing someone update the older SR3 rules to SR4, but I haven't been able to find it again on here.

[Wakshaani]

Well, here's my personal guideline for availability.

Non-lethal gets no restriction. (Pepper spray, tasers, etc).
Lethal gets Restricted for pistols, rifles/shotguns, and burst-fire weapons.
Big baddaboom, full auto, and "Cop Killer" ammo gets Forbidden.

Avail - is everywhere, like a club or a knife.
Avail 2 is virtually everywhere.
Avail 4 is a little hard to get.
Avail 6 is hard to get... if you don't know somebody, you're gonna have to get on a list and wait.
Avail 8 is as hard to get as most people can manage. 320 BP characters often get this as a starting cap, for instance.

Avail 9 is simply out of reach for most non-Shadowrunners. The move from 8, where you can track down a guy on a corner if you work at it long enough, to 9 is, essentially, getting in with black marketeers or crimincal syndicates instead of gangers. This is a HUGE step.
Avail 12 is cutting edge for starting Shadowrunners. Some milspec gear is here, most security-grade gear is here, and highly illegal things crop up at this level, like CYberdecks or mind control spells. You not only KNOW somebody, but you know them WELL to get this kind of access.

Avail 16 is where most Milspec stuff is and where you see some smoking hot releases that most people won't see for months. VEteran Shadowrunners play at this level while standard 'runners hope to get there and rookies dream about it.

Avil 20 is prototype stuff, or elite special forces supplies. You simply can't *get* a Sioux WIldcat gun unless you're looking at this level. This stuff is RARE and extremely hard to get. Most Shadowrunners will never see this kind of thing, unless they're briefly transporting it from one area to another.

[JustADude]

Out of curiosity, do you have any rule for equipment "prepackaged into a designed gun" being discounted or some such? I've put the gear in S4A and most of the guns from Arsenal into an excel file to compare the prices and values, and I've yet to find a balance point with which to make the prototype vehicles, guns, or gear that will inevitably be stolen/used in my campaign. For NPC-only gear that's self-destructive there's no need to worry about the cost, but PCs need to do things like repair broken gear and might want to modify, and this makes base prices more important, but I haven't been able to come up with a consistent rule for myself yet.

There's the Cyberware Suites discount... could easily go that route. Essentially, just reduce everything to 90% of list price... and remember, don't worry about slots for stuff that comes stock.

As for Base Price, I'd just go with the "Standard Best Choice" weapon and then strip it from there. By that I mean stuff like the Predator for a semi-auto Heavy Pistol, the Super Warhawk for a Revolver, Panther for an Assault Cannon, etc, etc.

Availability and Cost seem to be all over the board. There is no real rhyme or reason to them from what I've seen. I remember seeing someone update the older SR3 rules to SR4, but I haven't been able to find it again on here.

It was totally fan-made, anyway, and had quite a few glitches. To be fair, of course, it's not like anyone else has even done that much.

The document is titled "A Matter of Ballistics," and it's actually linked within a GM Toolbox topic regarding a different document on accessories. THREAD LINK HERE

[WellsIDidIt]

Hmm...what I'm remembering was on google docs, but the link I had is dead now. I think it was pretty much the same thing, writing seems like the same guy. From what I messed around with, it seemed like most of the issues hopped the fence from the old SR3 system.

The main issue is, and always has been, that making new firearms with these rules cannot reproduce the results you find on the standard guns. Meaning that even after making a new firearm, the GM has to go through and adjust the price (and create an availability) that they feel fits.

I do like the FCU for how many stock mods you can cram into a gun though.

[Unahim]

Also, I think the fact that prepackaged mods don't count towards mod limit should cost extra.

[JustADude]

Hmm...what I'm remembering was on google docs, but the link I had is dead now. I think it was pretty much the same thing, writing seems like the same guy. From what I messed around with, it seemed like most of the issues hopped the fence from the old SR3 system.

The main issue is, and always has been, that making new firearms with these rules cannot reproduce the results you find on the standard guns. Meaning that even after making a new firearm, the GM has to go through and adjust the price (and create an availability) that they feel fits.

I do like the FCU for how many stock mods you can cram into a gun though.

Knew the guy in the flesh... he was always on the conservative side when it came to pricing, power-levels, and quibbling over details like being able to wear PPP under an Armored Jacket (Short version - he said "no" because a Mortimer Of London Greatcoat Line suit isn't the item known as "Clothing").

You'd probably like him.
(Joke, not an insult!)

But, yeah, he loves his low-powered stuff. Our campaign, for example, had starting Availability reduced to 8 (12 with Restricted Gear) with insanely expensive contacts.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Weirdly enough, my personal solution for these is ... design in 3e, port to 4e.  If it's a 'standard item', i.e. wasn't a custom one-off job, or even just a run of 50 or 500, use the "Firearms Prices the Sensible Way" article by Eleanor Holmes in The Shadowrun Supplemental #14 as a guide to, well, sensible prices.  Yes, I've made kickass weapons and vehicles using the SR3 rules; the Rigger 3 build rules give you an accurate price point for your superbike, while using the above article on your Cannon Companion super-sneaky killer pistol means that you'll have a decent base price for the weapon, even if it's insanely difficult to get a hold of.  (Honda Vector racing bike: ¥81,000+.  Springfield Finalist: ¥1,900.)

Moving them over to SR4 at that point is a matter of compare, contrast, and tweak in the same way as the canonical gear is.  Typically it doesn't require much ...

[WellsIDidIt]

That's what I usually do as well, but it does have the downside of requiring books from the previous edition, which many people don't want to buy if they never intend to play it.

[Kat9]

just use Mirikon's method of hitting them with the Atlanta phone book.

Or the OED.

[Snake Eyes]

I've done so, but it was a highly modified version of a gun already in the Shadowrun books, and character specific.

[Anarkitty]

"I want the really super sportscar!"  "OK, fine, it's a Ferrari."  "SWEET!"  "The kind they only sell to people on THEIR list.  You could show up, dump elenventy-billion nuyen on their table, and they'll tell you to take your poser hoop out of there and let the guy who's been on the real waiting list actually buy it for a few ten million."  "...  OK Hacker, find me that list."

Getting that car could be a run in and of itself.

[CanRay]

"I want the really super sportscar!"  "OK, fine, it's a Ferrari."  "SWEET!"  "The kind they only sell to people on THEIR list.  You could show up, dump elenventy-billion nuyen on their table, and they'll tell you to take your poser hoop out of there and let the guy who's been on the real waiting list actually buy it for a few ten million."  "...  OK Hacker, find me that list."

Getting that car could be a run in and of itself.

Exactly!