[RHat]

It's in Gun Haven, the first one. They put Battle Rifles in with Automatics.

That's unfortunate.  I'd still houserule it otherwise, though - in fact, if you're dissatisfied with Automatics being too much of a One Skill, a couple of recategorizations could solve your problem.  Most obvious choices would be Machine Pistols into Pistols and Battle Rifles into Longarms.  That along with some minor changes to to shotguns (more exclusive ammo options, maybe making SnS unique to or uniquely effective for shotguns, and perhaps giving shotgun gel rounds a stronger secondary affect due to the greater mass of the projectile) should make things work.

[All4BigGuns]

The skills are fine as-is. Sure Automatics has one more gun type, but oh well. It's those weapons that that skill covers that will cause the most problems (aside from Heavy Weapons) if you're caught with one. True, the same could be said for sniper rifles, but a shotgun or sport rifle could be easily explained away by saying you're going to be going on a hunting trip in the next couple of hours.

[DamienHollow]

I see a royal mess happening with this, but couldn't things like the Machine Pistol (a weapon you hardly see in real life) be dual class (automatics and Pistols) and just use the higher of your two skills?

[RHat]

The skills are fine as-is. Sure Automatics has one more gun type, but oh well. It's those weapons that that skill covers that will cause the most problems (aside from Heavy Weapons) if you're caught with one. True, the same could be said for sniper rifles, but a shotgun or sport rifle could be easily explained away by saying you're going to be going on a hunting trip in the next couple of hours.

Unless it's the wrong shotgun - good luck explaining why you need an AA-16 to go hunting.

It's not about number of gun types, however.  It's about the number of problems those firearms solve.  Automatics gives you good concealability (Machine Pistols), extremely strong offensive capability and fully automatic weapons with SMG's and Assault Rifles, and long range of engagement with Battle Rifles.

Frankly, Machine Pistols can be left alone - shifting Battle Rifles gives a somewhat needed boost to Longarms, and means that Automatics isn't providing a weapon for every problem - thus giving a character more reason to take more weapon skills.  Pistols for concealability (Machine Pistols might due in a pinch, but they ARE worse for this than any Pistols option), Automatics for general combat purposes, and Longarms for longer distances or specialty munitions.  And thus, any of them are a real option for a combative build, with particular advantages and disadvantages - this is real balance.

[Novocrane]

Personally, I'd rather see machine pistols just subsumed into heavy / light /hold out, while SMGs and rifles get better recoil reduction & damage.

Battle rifles feel more like a solution seeking a problem, as far as core rules go.

[WellsIDidIt]

The issue with Automatics is that it just does not make any sense. A machine pistol like the FN 5-7C uses a different skill than a heavy pistol like the Salvette Guardian when both are firing in BF even though they use the same frame type. Similarly, there is no reason for a Battle Rifle being fired in SA to use a completely different skill than a Sport Rifle firing in SA. It's the same style of shooting.

The best solution, what I'm hoping gets done in SR5, is to toss Automatics into a bottomless pit, roll Machine Pistols and SMGs into the Pistols skill, and toss Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles into the Longarms skill. Toss Gunnery or Heavy Weapons into the Firearms group to replace the lost Automatics skill and everything would work fine.

[Wildcard]

even if you can't suppress one, you can easily justify house-ruling silent ammo... they've made it in real life.

Rule Zero Fallacy.

Fallacy fallacy.

"Argumentum ad logicam, is the logical fallacy that if an argument contains a logical fallacy all of the entire proposition is wrong."

[DamienHollow]

even if you can't suppress one, you can easily justify house-ruling silent ammo... they've made it in real life.

Rule Zero Fallacy.

Fallacy fallacy.

"Argumentum ad logicam, is the logical fallacy that if an argument contains a logical fallacy all of the entire proposition is wrong."

I'm not certain why this has caused such a stir. I can see plenty of reason to want silenced ammunition as opposed to a silenced weapon (for one it's far more effective at signature reduction at the cost of power.) and it's something that's actually been done with several rounds, not just shotguns.
As far as whether or not rules are broken or not, I just leave the rules to the developers and make house rules to patch things until they actually fix them. That's the point of house rules, isn't it?

[Whiskeyjack]

My point was basically, whether or not shotguns can/should be silenced SHOULD be something the mechanics developers considered and wrote into the rules, given we're playing basically special ops disposable assets. Not really interested in discussing potential house rules TBH.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Seriously?  You are winging about what someone else wrote and are not interested in making a fix at your table?

Why the hell talk to us, then?

[Falconer]

Because some of us like to play by the normal rules... and not house rule everything and anything.   Keeping that to a minimum.

As soon as you start doing a ton of houseruling you end up with SR3 where one table would do things vastly different than another... and vastly different problems/game experiences.

[RHat]

Because some of us like to play by the normal rules... and not house rule everything and anything.   Keeping that to a minimum.

As soon as you start doing a ton of houseruling you end up with SR3 where one table would do things vastly different than another... and vastly different problems/game experiences.

That's kind of one of the constants of tabletop gaming.  You can't write a game such that nobody will houserule, rather, you can only hope to write one such that people will houserule because they want to rather than need to.

[Ghoulfodder]

Crazy idea that might make shotguns a bit more popular and useful...

sports rifles, sniper rifles and assault rifles are all designed for relatively long engagement ranges, and can be unwieldy and more difficult to aim in close quarters. So rather than just giving them longer ranges, why not give the guns different sorts of range penalties as well.

For example
                                    Short                 Medium           Long                 Extreme
Shotgun                        +1                         -1                   -3                         -6
SMG                               -0                          -1                   -3                         -5 
Assault Rifle                -2                           -0                   -2                         -4                       
Sports Rifle                  -3                          -0                   -2                          -3
Sniper Rifle                  -3                          -2                   -0                         -3 

Obviously that's very crude and it would be hard to balance (and make things more complicated, but it might make SMGs and shotguns more worth taking other than just for concealibility. Afterall, their purpose in military use is closequarters combat like room clearance. The sort of thing I'd have thought runners actually do quite a lot, and I'd normally expect them to be a smart runner's preferred weapon, logically.

But then I'm a brit, so I know sod all about guns.

[DamienHollow]

I don't see why they make such a difference between sniper and sporting/hunting rifles, the two tend to be fairly interchangeable in the real world. both are built for accuracy at long range and great power. I've seen plenty of "hunting" arms that are better weapons than most military arms.

[RHat]

I don't see why they make such a difference between sniper and sporting/hunting rifles, the two tend to be fairly interchangeable in the real world. both are built for accuracy at long range and great power. I've seen plenty of "hunting" arms that are better weapons than most military arms.

It's the difference between Restricted and Forbidden - it's more about the game end of things than the modelling reality end of things.