[Blue_Lion]

Why don't their modifications work for magicians?

because they are a vsion enhament that substutes itself for the charters own vision not paid for with essence.

Its not wether its paid for in Essence or not.
Radar (and Ultrasound) simply is not sight.
thats the simple core of why a Mage can't cast a Spell with LOS .
Just like he can't cast it with Hearing or Smelling

with a sweaty Dance
Medicineman

I am not going to restart that debate here but that is your opion not the rules.

[All4BigGuns]

Why don't their modifications work for magicians?

because they are a vsion enhament that substutes itself for the charters own vision not paid for with essence.

Its not wether its paid for in Essence or not.
Radar (and Ultrasound) simply is not sight.
thats the simple core of why a Mage can't cast a Spell with LOS .
Just like he can't cast it with Hearing or Smelling

with a sweaty Dance
Medicineman

I am not going to restart that debate here but that is your opion not the rules.

Actually, it is. If it is Headware like Ultrasound and Radar, it is not sight. If it is Eyeware then it is sight. It's just that simple. There may not be a sentence saying "______ are examples of sight and ______ are not sight", but it's pretty plain that if it isn't something that goes directly into the eyes (when used as implant) it isn't--at least when using a bit of common sense.

[Blue_Lion]

I do not wan't to resart it hear but the rules do not say cyber eyes/sight they say cyber ware that can spot the target can be used. So again it is your opion that only sight can work. I am quite threw with people claiming there opions are the rules on this.

In the end wiether or not they can be used is up the GM, some may block it for what ever reason some may allow it.

[Ryo]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

[All4BigGuns]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

Simple, they suffer "vision modifiers" because it is a system of modifiers already in place, and in keeping with the KISS principle they didn't want to further complicate matters by creating an entirely new set of modifiers just for that.

[Blue_Lion]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

Simple, they suffer "vision modifiers" because it is a system of modifiers already in place, and in keeping with the KISS principle they didn't want to further complicate matters by creating an entirely new set of modifiers just for that.

This is not the place to be debating this. The question for this topic is it worth it for a mage to have cyber-eyes. Depending on you play your charters it can be. Minor cyber bio 1-2 points you can still make verry functioning mages. However for some play styles it might not be. If you want to max out your magic damage then taking the cyber implants whould limit it. I have done both and both are playble and effective.

[All4BigGuns]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

Simple, they suffer "vision modifiers" because it is a system of modifiers already in place, and in keeping with the KISS principle they didn't want to further complicate matters by creating an entirely new set of modifiers just for that.

This is not the place to be debating this. The question for this topic is it worth it for a mage to have cyber-eyes. Depending on you play your charters it can be. Minor cyber bio 1-2 points you can still make verry functioning mages. However for some play styles it might not be. If you want to max out your magic damage then taking the cyber implants whould limit it. I have done both and both are playble and effective.

The answer to that question is also simple. No, it isn't worth it except in very rare cases where the character idea may require it.

[RHat]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

You should really be aware of the context before jumping in, here - it's a carry over of a pseudo-argument about whether or not the fact that cyber-eyes can be used to target spells means that radar can.

Basically, a discussion that boils down to "things that are-like-sight-but-not-sight are not sight and thus can't be used to target spells" with "yes they can lalalalalalalalalalaIcan'thearyoulalalalalalalalalalala" being the response.

In any case:  Cyber-eyes can be worth it if you have 'ware already and remaining partial Essence to work with, but never worth directly losing a point of Magic.

[Blue_Lion]

If UWB and Ultrasound are not vision, why do they suffer from vision modifiers?

You're splitting hairs, picking the vague sort of rule in the book that supports your view and ignoring the similarly vague sort of rules that support the other. The fact of the matter is, There is no rule for it. It isn't explicitly stated anywhere, so it's up to the GM.

You should really be aware of the context before jumping in, here - it's a carry over of a pseudo-argument about whether or not the fact that cyber-eyes can be used to target spells means that radar can.

Basically, a discussion that boils down to "things that are-like-sight-but-not-sight are not sight and thus can't be used to target spells" with "yes they can lalalalalalalalalalaIcan'thearyoulalalalalalalalalalala" being the response.

In any case:  Cyber-eyes can be worth it if you have 'ware already and remaining partial Essence to work with, but never worth directly losing a point of Magic.

usaly if I take cyber eyes on a mage it also has other cyber/bio implants. Such as when I made a sensory based mage with cyber eyes, ation coprocessor. He had I high spot chance +6 to visual, so he had a good chance to detect people quickly and then hit them with spells. The group wound up beeing a counter stealth group able to track down hard to find things and people. We pulled lots of runs where we got hired because a company got a tip they whould be hit by runners, so we augmented the secerty. Thouse where some perty tuff runs thou, runners vs gmed runners.

But all said the abilty of a human mage to cast spells reguardless of light is a big bonus.