[Prodigy]

Just  so we are clear, Kyllo v. United States is using Thermal Imaging on a HOME. Walk outside and all bets are off.

Also, I don't like the legality system because legality changes per country. Heck, per state even. Perhaps Catalyst could write a Laws and Legality book...

[Aryeonos]

I'd buy that book in a heartbeat.

[RHat]

Actually, it would be simple enough to have base availabilities, and then in a book like Sixth World Almanac include modifications by region.

[JoeNapalm]

Just  so we are clear, Kyllo v. United States is using Thermal Imaging on a HOME. Walk outside and all bets are off.

Wow.

I have to give you credit, you exude confidence as you continue to make bold, innacurate statements.

That case was decided using the doctrine established by Katz v. United States, a pivotal decision regarding electronic surveillance. The Katz standard maintains that privacy is more important than location. While the home enjoys the highest expectation of privacy, Kyllo v. United States establishes a precedent that would extend to an individual's person.

Last year's Jones decision pushes this even further, a ruling so broad as to effectively establish that a person can have an expectation of privacy from constant electronic observation while in plain view in public areas.

Now, if you want to have a debate on Constitutional Law matters, I would love to oblige, but it is wildly off topic, at this point, and frankly - it doesn't matter if you agree with me, what matters is that the United States Supreme Court agrees with me.

If you don't like it, take it up with them.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Aryeonos]

Actually, it would be simple enough to have base availabilities, and then in a book like Sixth World Almanac include modifications by region.

Yeah definitely, or something that goes with class, like I could see this working for weapons mostly. (Semi auto shotguns are F here but only R here kinds of things)

[Prodigy]

Joe, I am not trying to belittle you, but my point is still valid. The cases you cite have no bearing on my original point, which is PC still validates use of Thermal Imaging in public. This is my last off topic post.

I like Rhat's idea. SWA but include laws would work.

BTW Joe I commend you for actually knowing what you are talking about. I appreciate and LOVE law discussion, but this is not the forum for it. Either your Google skills are great OR you are an actual lawyer. Either way, I would love a debate on Constitutional Law. My focus is Criminal Law. (I HATE Torts)

[Mantis]

I'm guessing many of you never played earlier editions of Shadowrun cuz back in the day they had different legal codes for all sorts of stuff and it varied by nation. Dig up a copy of the old Denver Box (Denver:City of Shadows) set if you want an example. They provide the legality of a variety of items for Aztlan, CAS, UCAS, Sioux, PCC and the now disbanded Ute nations along with suggested jail time and fines if you are caught with the items in question.
I'm guessing it wasn't brought forward into 4th ed as people didn't like it or didn't want to use it as perhaps it was needlessly complicated. Anyway, if you want a law book, dig up some of the old source books. They all had these in them. London, Tir Tairngire, Tir Na nOg, Aztlan, etc.

[Aryeonos]

you've actually given me reason to go buy out my LGS's collection of shadowrun books.... thanks mantis, I'm billing it to your account!

[JoeNapalm]

Joe, I am not trying to belittle you, but my point is still valid. The cases you cite have no bearing on my original point, which is PC still validates use of Thermal Imaging in public. This is my last off topic post.

I like Rhat's idea. SWA but include laws would work.

BTW Joe I commend you for actually knowing what you are talking about. I appreciate and LOVE law discussion, but this is not the forum for it. Either your Google skills are great OR you are an actual lawyer. Either way, I would love a debate on Constitutional Law. My focus is Criminal Law. (I HATE Torts)

I may be mixing my timelines, as I am thinking that searching a persons innards for cyber is more intrusive than a pat down, but still believe a warrant wouldn't be needed in the Sixth World due to thermal being so common. I would hesitate to search the insides of a person for illegal cyberware in the present day without a warrant, though, as thermal is uncommon enough to evoke an expectation of privacy. 

Not the Googles, nor an actual lawyer...just a humble Ifriti Sophist.

-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate

[Mantis]

Well if that's what I get for doing a good deed... 

[Prodigy]

I actually do remember that Mantis. I also remember Cyberpirates! had a lifestyle cost modifier per country. I guess I just wanted it all to be sourced into one book. Just greedy on my part.

[Mantis]

Well then just grab the PDFs as Catalyst puts them out or else you could scan the proper pages and make your own PDF of those charts for your own use. Honestly, we never really used those charts much back in the day. If you got caught with something that could get you jail time, then you screwed up big time. You failed to hide your gear properly or do your surveillance and leg work first. Sure, it's kind of a pain in the ass to have to hide everything but then it is called Shadowrun rather than BrazenGunTotingManiacsRun©, so one should expect a measure of sneakiness and hiding things. At least I do. 

[Aryeonos]

I like how that rolls off the tongue "BrazenGunTotingManiacsRun©".

Yeah, me and the gang are gonna play the new missions for "BrazenGunTotingManiacsRun©" 3rd Ed, it's not like first though, there are these new skills that you "Have to have!" like "Infiltration" and "Concealing". I think it really drained the spirit of the game.

[Mantis]

Lol. I have to come up with a new one of those every time I encounter that argument.

[Aryeonos]

You'll be the resident Steve Jackson in no time.