Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Mach_Ten on <02-22-13/0836:13>
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Hi folks,
first post, but don't be worried about hurting my feelings .. I'm old and bitter enough :o
So, I'm joining a new game (I'm new to SR4 but have played 3rd before so understand the setting)
and have a concept but no way to "realize" the Stats and powers, maybe you can help me build it up ?
Oh, I'm not looking for the super optimized, high calibre full auto assault cannon Elf, just something that is good at being a Thief but can survive as a more generalist char.
I'm thinking essentially of Deus-Ex:HR pure stealth guy, he breaks in, avoids the guards or if necessarytakes them out silently
performs basic hacking of the MagLocks and computers (with equipment if necessary) and then jumps out the window to street level and boogaloo's!
I'm thinking a part Bioware (muscle toner, suprathyroid) Adept in some form fitting and chameleon suit
he has a silenced pistol for emergencies but prefers to be invisible to guards and security
as a secondary, I'd like to be able to function in a social scene, but I can happily throw that out if it's too broad a spectrum of skills etc.
Can it work ?
also, having not been an adept before, I need some intro to Foci for sustaining / power and advice on how best to setup for a run
Thanks in advance
Mach
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This is totally workable as a character concept.
You do not need Foci as an adept.
A few questions:
What books do you have access to? In particular, can you use Adept ways?
I notice you didn't mention a metatype. I would recommend Ork because it saves points and they are going to be spread a bit thin, but Elf or Troll is also reasonable. Dwarf has a narrow niche that this isn't, and Human gets you nothing and you won't have the points left to take advantage of the higher edge.
Edit: actually, point of clarification: in 4e, getting past Maglocks is not hacking, it's Hardware. I don't think you actually want to be a hacker, it sounds like you want to be able to break into places. Trying to also be a hacker would end up spreading you too thin to work as an adept.
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Not directly answering your question, but ...
Facial Sculpt, Keratin Control, Melanin Control & Master of 1000 Faces will make you pretty good at strolling past the guards - which also segues nicely into being good with social skills.
If you can take the essence loss, (<2) the Universal Omnitech Infiltr8r cybersuite also makes a good choice - even better if you can convince your GM to pass a version that uses alphaware nanocybernetics from Augmentation, or ask whether you can mod the dermal sheath with tech from a holowear jumpsuit. (Attitude)
Books used;
Attitude, Augmentation (only needed for 'ware), Street Magic (required), Spy Games (very useful), Way of the Samurai
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Have to disagree on Holowear. I admit it looks very, very good (instantly wear any uniform/outfit you can think of), but it's really quite easy to spot. Threshold 2 means that anyone with even average perception and intuition can easily spot your fake outfit if they think "Hm, haven't seen that guy working before.". (Int 3, Skill 2, Actively Looking 3: Average 2.66 hits.)
Social scene functions don't have to be expensive as long as you're not trying to outdo the face. Just being able to seem like you belong and get past security checkpoints without a lot of questions: 3 Cha, 2 Etiquette + 2 spec (security) and 2 First Impression (you won't be silly enough to go back to the scene of a crime, right?) give you 9 dice to chat with the bouncer/bodyguard/security clerck.
Anyhow, I had a B&E adept built for a game that died, if you wanna have a look:
Art thief turned Shadowrunner, built around Master of 1000 Faces and with more than average BPs...
Street Name: 'Official': Matryoska. 'Speech': 'Matt / Mata' (Depending on current gender.)
Name: Sam De Bruyn
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 6
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: -1
Public Awareness: 0
Race: Elf (Public: Unknown) Sex: Unknown Age 40
Height 1.3m-2,5m Weight 50-110
Composure: 10
Judge Intentions: 14
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 6
REA: 3 (4)
STR: 2
CHA: 7
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 8 (9)
IP: 1 (2)
Astral Initiative: 10
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 8
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 4
Animal Training : 0 Pool: 4
Archery : 0 Pool: 5
Armorer : 0 Pool: 2
Artisan : 0 Pool: 4
Automatics : 0 Pool: 5
Blades : 0 Pool: 5
Climbing : 0 Pool: 1
Clubs : 4 Pool: 10
Computer : 1 Pool: 4
Con : 4 Pool: 13
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 2
Data Search : 0 Pool: 2
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 2
Disguise : 5 Pool: 13
Diving : 0 Pool: 2
Dodge : 0 Pool: 3
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 5
Etiquette : 4 Pool: 13
First Aid : 0 Pool: 2
Flight : 0 Pool: 1
Forgery : 0 Pool: 5
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 5
Gymnastics : 4 Pool: 10
Hacking : 0 Pool: 2
Hardware : 3 Pool: 6
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 5
Infiltration : 5 Pool: 11
Instruction : 0 Pool: 6
Intimidation : 1 Pool: 10
Leadership : 4 Pool: 13
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 5
Longarms : 0 Pool: 5
Navigation : 0 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 4 Pool: 13
Palming : 5 Pool: 12
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 2
Perception : 2 Pool: 7
Pilot Ground Craft : 0 Pool: 3
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 3
Pistols : 4 Pool: 10
Riding : 0 Pool: 3
Running : 0 Pool: 1
Shadowing : 5 Pool: 10
Survival : 0 Pool: 2
Swimming : 0 Pool: 1
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 5
Tracking : 0 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 5
== Knowledge Skills == (Languages include +2 from Linguist)
Cantonese : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8 (10)
English : N Pool: 0
German : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8(10)
Japanese : 4 [Speak] Pool: 9(11)
Or'zet : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8(10)
Sioux : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8(10)
Spanish : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8(10)
Sperethiel : 3 [Speak] Pool: 8(10)
Art : 3 Pool: 8
History : 1 Pool: 6
Security Design : 3 Pool: 8
Syndicates : 2 Pool: 7
== Contacts ==
Erin LeBlanc (C4, L3) Antiquities and Oddities Dealer (Fixer, Fencing, Art& History)
Johnathan 'John' Cromwell (C5, L3) Lawyer (Fake ID's, Fixer, Corporate Info)
Mario Finchetto, Dockworker (C3, L2) (Smuggling, Mafia, Street Rumors)
== Qualities ==
Adept
First Impression
Linguist
Low-Light Vision
Quick Healer
Sensitive System
Data Shadow (Rating 2)
Pacifist (Minor)
Signature (Leaves a matryoshka doll at the scene.)
== Initiation ==
Level 2
Masking
+1 Power Point
== Powers ==
Commanding Voice
Eidetic Sense Memory
Facial Sculpt Rating: 1
Improved Reflexes 1
Keratin Control
Kinesics Rating: 2
Linguistics
Master of 1000 Faces
Melanin Control
Nimble Fingers
Voice Control
== Lifestyles ==
Middle 1 months
== Armor ==
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
+Chemical Protection 3
+Thermal Damping 6
H-jumpsuit 3/2
+Nonconductivity 4
+Ruthenium Polymer Coating
+Shock Frills
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Leg Casings 0/1
SecureTech Shin Guards 0/1
== Weapons ==
Ares Viper Slivergun
+Concealable Holster
+Smartgun System, External
+Stock
+Additional Clip, Pistol
+Electronic Firing
+Extended Clip
+Firing Selection Change, Small Mod (FA)
+Sound Suppressor
Pool: 10 DV: 8P(f) AP: +5 RC: 2
Defiance EX Shocker
+Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+Smartgun System, External
+Stock
+Additional Clip, Pistol
+Easy Breakdown, Manual
+Extended Clip
+Firing Selection Change, Small Mod (SA)
+Personalized Grip, Melee
Pool: 11 DV: 8S(e) AP: -half RC: 1
Defiance EX Shocker
+Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+Smartgun System, External
+Stock
+Additional Clip, Pistol
+Easy Breakdown, Manual
+Extended Clip
+Firing Selection Change, Small Mod (SA)
+Personalized Grip, Melee
Pool: 11 DV: 8S(e) AP: -half RC: 1
Grenade: Flash-Bang
Pool: 5 DV: 6S (10m Radius) AP: -3 RC: 0
Grenade: Gas
Pool: 5 DV: Chemical (10m Radius) AP: - RC: 0
Grenade: Smoke
Pool: 5 DV: (10m Radius) AP: - RC: 0
Grenade: Thermal Smoke
Pool: 5 DV: (10m Radius) AP: - RC: 0
SA Puzzler
+Electronic Firing
+Melee Hardening
+Silencer
+Smartgun System
Pool: 10 DV: 4P AP: - RC: 1
== Martial Arts ==
Arnis De Mano
+inflict dmage when making Called Shot to disarm
Disarm
Two Weapon Style
== Commlink ==
Disposable Commlink (1, 0, 0, 3) x2
Erika Elite (3, 0, 0, 4)
+Firewall Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Registration]
+System Rating 3 [Copy Protection 3, Registration]
+Hardening Rating 6
+Armor Case Rating 10
+Flash-Pak
+Command Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Registration, Optimization 3]
+Analyze Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Registration, Optimization 3]
+Edit Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Registration, Optimization 3]
+Browse Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Registration, Optimization 3]
== Gear ==
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x100
Ammo: Capsule Rounds (Light Pistols) x15
+DMSO
+Slab
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Light Pistols) x40
Ammo: Hi-C Plastic Rounds (Light Pistols) x40
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Light Pistols) x50
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x100
Contact Lenses Rating 3
+Smartlink
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Flare Compensation
Earbuds Rating 3
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Select Sound Filter Rating 3
+Spatial Recognizer
Fake License (Weapons) Rating 5
Fake License (Weapons) Rating 4 x 2
Fake License (Weapons) Rating 2
Fake License (Weapons) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Josh Salt, White Human Male) Rating 5
Fake SIN (Anna Hunt, Black Ork Amerind) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Dai Takahashi, Japanese Human Male) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Sandra Friedmann, Female Human Caucasian, Allies German States) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Raul Salazar, Male Dwarf, Aztlan) Rating 2
Gamma-Scopolamine x 3
Gas Mask
Glasses Rating 4
+Ultrasound
+Vision Magnification
+Thermographic
Grenade: Flash-Bang x 2
Grenade: Gas x 3
+Breathtaker
Grenade: Smoke x 2
Grenade: Thermal Smoke x 2
Handheld Sensor
+Ultrawideband Radar Rating 4
+Non-Linear Junction Detector Rating 6
Handheld Sensor
+Laser Microphone Rating 6
+Motion Sensor
Laés
Carcerands x 3
Laés Cigarette x 3
Miniwelder
Nanopaste Disguise (Large Container)
Nanopaste Disguise (Small Container)
Nova Scorpion Venom
Respirator Rating 6
Satellite Link
Scent-masking Cigarette x10
Slab x3
Tool Kit (Disguise)
Tool Kit (Hardware)
== Vehicles ==
MCT Fly-Spy (Minidrone)
+Improved Sensor Array
+Improved Takeoff and Landing Level 2
+Satellite Communication
+Covert Ops Rating 3
+Copy Protection Rating 3
+Registration
+Maneuver (Self) Rating 2
+Copy Protection Rating 2
+Registration
+Small Drone Sensor
+Camera Neutralizer Rating 6
Rover 2068 (SUV)
+Amenities, High
+Anti-Theft
+Anti-Theft
+Firewall 5
+Morphing License Plate
+Off-Road Suspension
+Passenger Protection Rating 2
+Maneuver (Self) Rating 3
+Pilot Program Rating 3
+Satellite Communication
+Spoof Chip
+Valkyrie Module
+Vehicle Sensor
Money: 2900Y
Background & Physical description: The little information there is on Matryoskas earlier years is of no value in describing the person now. It's unclear whether the individual was born male, female, neither or hermaphrodite. The persons ethnicity as well as the place of birth varies in each telling. What remains constant is that Matryoshka was born somewhere in North America and lived a dull childhood until the moment of her/his awakening. One of his/her powers that triggered earliest allowed his/her body to change radically. Unfortunately for Matryoshka, learning how to control this power came slowly. S)he went through life in constant pain for a several months or years as her body continued to alter itself and his/her freakish appearance caused her to be shunned by everyone around her.
As soon as (s)he grew someone accustomed to her new abilities, she left her old life behind and started a new one off the grid. Surviving from petty theft and prostitution, Matryoska quickly realized his/her advantage in both these fields and climbed the ladder from bottom-feeder to professional criminal using deception, manipulation and sexuality when required to improve his/her standing.
His/her first 'real' runner experience was a job to steal a valuable piece of art from a private collection, a job (s)he completed almost single handed. This performance scored more offers in the same line of work and (s)he seemed to like it, quickly becoming one of the first choices for any fixer setting up these sort of jobs.
Asides from obvious reasons related to changing shape, Matryoshka earned his/her nickname by the signature Matryoshka doll left behind at the scene of a crime after it's done. (S)he is currently in the process of broadening her marketability, hoping to find better-paying work in other related branches such as espionage. In spite of how useful his/her talents would be for jobs involving wetwork, however, to this day Matryoshka has refused to accept any such offers.
Giving a physical description of the person is simply impossible. People who've worked in close contact with him or her can verify without a shred of doubt that Matryoshka is a male dwarf Amerind, only to have people working with Matryoshka a month later describing him/her as a pale-skinned Japanese elf.
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cheers
I Ithink I'm aiming at Magic 4 ish so Ware / Bio is acceptable, but the social is a "Oh Crap, there's too many to kill !" backup so not throwing too much at it
I was thinking Human but Elf or Orc is fine
No, I want to avoid hacking, Hardware sounds perfect
I am told 400BP and most official sources (including Adepts way) as this is a "missions" character if that means anything to you
thanks again
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Have to disagree on Holowear. I admit it looks very, very good (instantly wear any uniform/outfit you can think of), but it's really quite easy to spot. Threshold 2 means that anyone with even average perception and intuition can easily spot your fake outfit if they think "Hm, haven't seen that guy working before.". (Int 3, Skill 2, Actively Looking 3: Average 2.66 hits.)
Which is where the dermal sheath RPC coating comes in at -4 to Perception.
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Have to disagree on Holowear. I admit it looks very, very good (instantly wear any uniform/outfit you can think of), but it's really quite easy to spot. Threshold 2 means that anyone with even average perception and intuition can easily spot your fake outfit if they think "Hm, haven't seen that guy working before.". (Int 3, Skill 2, Actively Looking 3: Average 2.66 hits.)
Which is where the dermal sheath RPC coating comes in at -4 to Perception.
is that not a bit .. ummm.. munchy ? would not a hologram over-ride ruthenium coating ?
and to add, any kind of invis magic ability is good, (cloaking ?) and maybe levitation, but I'm probably pushing my luck now :) )
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cheers
I Ithink I'm aiming at Magic 4 ish so Ware / Bio is acceptable, but the social is a "Oh Crap, there's too many to kill !" backup so not throwing too much at it
I was thinking Human but Elf or Orc is fine
No, I want to avoid hacking, Hardware sounds perfect
I am told 400BP and most official sources (including Adepts way) as this is a "missions" character if that means anything to you
thanks again
Missions ruleset would mean Shadowrun Missions, which actually means no Way of the Adept as that's optional.
I would actually suggest losing 2 magic rather than 1. 3 is a good breakpoint.
Key ideas:
Ork
Softcap Intuition, Charisma, Agility, and Magic. Don't put much into Body, Strength, Reaction, or Willpower. Buy Athletics 4, Influence 4, Stealth 4, Pistols 1, Hardware 6, Perception 1. Maybe increase the 1 skills if you have free points. Resist the urge to buy 10 different skills at rank 1. Adept powers-wise, I suggest Kinesics 3, Facial Sculpt 1, Commanding Voice, Enthralling Performance, and Improved Ability (Hardware).
Ware-wise: Muscle Toner, Synthacardium, Reflex Recorder (Stealth), Tailored Pheremones, Attention Coprocessor are IMO the best bang for your buck. Maybe get Synaptic Boosters 1, maybe not.
That's very rough but I think it works.
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Key ideas:
Ork
Softcap Intuition, Charisma, Agility, and Magic. Don't put much into Body, Strength, Reaction, or Willpower. Buy Athletics 4, Influence 4, Stealth 4, Pistols 1, Hardware 6, Perception 1. Maybe increase the 1 skills if you have free points. Resist the urge to buy 10 different skills at rank 1. Adept powers-wise, I suggest Kinesics 3, Facial Sculpt 1, Commanding Voice, Enthralling Performance, and Improved Ability (Hardware).
Ware-wise: Muscle Toner, Synthacardium, Reflex Recorder (Stealth), Tailored Pheremones, Attention Coprocessor are IMO the best bang for your buck. Maybe get Synaptic Boosters 1, maybe not.
That's very rough but I think it works.
Cheers much, it does seem quite social heavy in the old magic department though, less sneaky more talky
which is fine of course but not quite what I was aiming for, also I specifically asked and the DM is allowing Adepts Way ( it's not SRM, just based on the rules as I'm in the UK I won't ever attend a Con :(
cheers again
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Think (http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/media_gallery_image/public/images/TotalRecallhologram.jpg) Total (http://www.nmevideo.com/sites/default/files/images/still/2012/08/463898949_1813435992001_9036-ftr-15160-still.jpg)Recall (http://img.youtube.com/vi/7WGmB51wlX4/0.jpg)here (http://www.nmevideo.com/total-recall-clip-two-weeks), but your skin is also a material that can mimic surroundings with precision, or display any chosen image. Then you embed miniature holo-projectors into that.
With the costs involved, I wouldn't say it's disparately powered. (Restricted Gear and around 150k / 2 essence, versus Adept and 1.75PP+ of powers) It stands between the dedicated adept and the bio / cyber user that doesn't quite match up to that beyond terms of facial / muscle structure & skin tone.
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okay, I'll throw this at Chummer tonight and see what it gives me
then you can rip it apart :)
the party has a dedicated Face, so I just don't want to replicate what he can already do, just complement it
thanks again
Mach
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Okay, with adept ways in play and with you wanting more sneaky less talky, I would revise my advice somewhat.
Take the Invisible Way adept way, and adjust your powers to:
Unseen Hands 3
Kinesics 3
I'm not sure how good the dedicated face is. If you want to be less good at social skills and more good at other things, lower your Influence group to 1, and your Charisma as low as you are willing to go.
The reason why you lose the skills and stats rather than Tailored Pheremones and Kinesics is cost-efficiency. Kinesics 2 eats 1 PP (= 10 bp), Influence +2 eats 20 bp. With Charisma 2, Influence 1, Tailored Pheremones 3, Kinesics 3, you have 9 dice on social skills which is OK, and you pay very little for it, leaving you with room to be good at other stuff. I don't recommend Enthralling Performance or Commanding Voice at that point though, but Unseen Hands is extremely good.
You might consider sticking with 1 point of ware and using the extra point of magic for Facial Sculpt 1 and some Improved Ability. One thing to note is that the discounted powers from Invisible Way are largely meh - the reason to have it is Unseen Hands. Don't shoehorn yourself into taking crap powers so you can use the discount.
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okay I've had a "quick" play
the missus is shouting at me so, I've not had chance to read up on the adepts way bit yet,
but here goes ... shred this and lemme know what you reckon, man it's hard to get everything with the BP ... :)
== Info ==
Street Name: Silas
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: -1
Public Awareness: 0
Ork
Composure: 9
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 9 (60 kg/40 kg)
Memory: 9
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4 (5)
AGI: 4 (7)
REA: 5 (6)
STR: 3 (4)
CHA: 4
INT: 4
LOG: 4
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 3
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.4
Initiative: 9 (10)
IP: 1 (2)
Astral Initiative: 8
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 4
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 3
Animal Training : 0 Pool: 3
Archery : 0 Pool: 6
Armorer : 0 Pool: 3
Artisan : 0 Pool: 3
Automatics : 0 Pool: 6
Blades : 0 Pool: 6
Climbing : 3 Pool: 10
Clubs : 0 Pool: 6
Computer : 0 Pool: 3
Con : 3 Pool: 8
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 3
Data Search : 0 Pool: 3
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 3
Disguise : 4 Pool: 9
Diving : 0 Pool: 4
Dodge : 0 Pool: 5
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 6
Etiquette : 3 Pool: 8
First Aid : 0 Pool: 3
Flight : 3 Pool: 10
Forgery : 0 Pool: 6
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 6
Gymnastics : 3 Pool: 13
Hacking : 0 Pool: 3
Hardware : 2 Pool: 7
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 6
Infiltration : 4 Pool: 12
Instruction : 0 Pool: 3
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 3
Leadership : 3 Pool: 8
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 6
Longarms : 0 Pool: 6
Navigation : 0 Pool: 3
Negotiation : 3 Pool: 8
Palming : 4 Pool: 12
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 4
Perception : 1 Pool: 5
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 7
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 5
Pistols : 1 Pool: 8
Riding : 0 Pool: 5
Running : 3 Pool: 10
Shadowing : 4 Pool: 9
Survival : 0 Pool: 4
Swimming : 3 Pool: 10
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 6
Tracking : 0 Pool: 3
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 6
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Qualities ==
Adept
First Impression
Low-Light Vision
Poor Self Control (Compulsive - High Danger) (Art Thief)
Signature
SINner (Standard) (Renraku)
== Powers ==
Cloak Rating: 1
Commanding Voice
Freefall Rating: 1
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Hardware) Rating: 1
Improved Reflexes 1
Kinesics Rating: 1
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Reflex Recorder (Skill Group) (Stealth)
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium Rating 3
== Armor ==
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
Lined Coat 6/4
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Helmet 0/2
SecureTech Vitals Protector1/1
== Weapons ==
Savalette Guardian
+Concealable Holster
+Red Dot Sight
+Additional Clip, Pistol
+Personalized Grip
+Silencer
+Smartgun System
Pool: 9 DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 6 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 0
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Morphing License Plate
+Run Flat Tires Rating 2
+Vehicle Sensor
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You're not doing enough with your LOG to justify a 4. Drop it 1 (or 2) and raise the Hardware skill instead by 2, you'll net 2 - 12 BP. Similarly, what are you doing with a 5 WIL? 'Absolutely nothing but wasting BP', is the answer. Drop it 2, get 20 BP. Once you've dropped those two stats, raise your AGI and INT and STR by 1 each.
You haven't taken any skill at 6, you really should do this, you'll get free Karma. Might I recommend Pistols as it is your most important skill that is not in a Group - and you presently suck at it. Also, you have no way to defend yourself in melee combat if you need to. Pick up the Unarmed Skill and a Shockglove.
You haven't taken your full 35 BP in Neg Quals, fix that - don't pass up more Karma. You can't get a Suprathyroid Gland without Restricted Gear Quality, you haven't taken it yet.
I'm not a big fan of Freefall, very niche application that can be replicated by simply rappelling which you are skilled at - granted it lacks the same instantaneous use nature. Also, the chances of your cloaking being better than a Magicians Assensing - unless you spend wayyy too much in it - is about nil, drop it.
Stuff some Level 2 Tailored Pheromones into that last 0.4 ESS, you didn't burn that MAG for nothing.
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I think you missed a beat by not including a Spoof Chip on the bike.
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okaaay then,
messed around some more, is this any better ? :-\
== Info ==
Street Name: Silas
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 6
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 7 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4 (5)
AGI: 7 (10)
REA: 4 (5)
STR: 1 (2)
CHA: 4
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 2
EDG: 2
MAG: 4
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.3
Initiative: 7 (8)
IP: 1 (2)
Astral Initiative: 6
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 3
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 9
== Active Skills ==
Animal Training : 0 Pool: 2
Archery : 0 Pool: 9
Armorer : 0 Pool: 3
Artisan : 0 Pool: 2
Automatics : 0 Pool: 9
Blades : 1 [Parrying] Pool: 11 (13)
Climbing : 2 Pool: 4
Clubs : 0 Pool: 9
Computer : 0 Pool: 3
Con : 2 Pool: 10
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 3
Data Search : 0 Pool: 3
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 3
Disguise : 3 Pool: 9
Diving : 0 Pool: 4
Dodge : 0 Pool: 4
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 9
Etiquette : 2 Pool: 10
First Aid : 0 Pool: 3
Flight : 2 Pool: 4
Forgery : 0 Pool: 9
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 9
Gymnastics : 2 Pool: 12
Hacking : 0 Pool: 3
Hardware : 2 Pool: 7
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 9
Infiltration : 3 Pool: 14
Instruction : 0 Pool: 3
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 3
Leadership : 2 Pool: 10
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 9
Longarms : 0 Pool: 9
Navigation : 0 Pool: 2
Negotiation : 2 Pool: 10
Palming : 3 Pool: 14
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 4
Perception : 1 Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 6
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 4
Pistols : 0 Pool: 9
Riding : 0 Pool: 4
Running : 2 Pool: 4
Shadowing : 3 Pool: 7
Survival : 0 Pool: 1
Swimming : 2 Pool: 4
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 9
Tracking : 0 Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 9
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Qualities ==
Adept
First Impression
Incompetent (Animal Handling)
Low-Light Vision
Poor Self Control (Compulsive - High Danger) (Art Thief)
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
Signature
SINner (Standard) ( Renraku)
== Powers ==
Counterstrike Rating: 1
Facial Sculpt Rating: 2
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Hardware) Rating: 2
Improved Reflexes 1
Kinesics Rating: 2
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Reflex Recorder (Skill Group) (Stealth)
Suprathyroid Gland
Tailored Pheromones Rating 2
== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 9 DV: 1S AP: - RC: 0
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is this any better ? :-\
Don't be discouraged, the advice I put out is for heightened levels of optimization. If that isn't what you necessarily need/want, then just do what's right for you.
That being said, you asked to be a Infiltrator/B&E guy who can take people out quietly. So, when you ask if this build is better I have to assume you're asking mechanically regarding those roles: taking people out, stealth and B&E. Stealth and B&E is not really a skill-set that requires or deserves singular dedication - you can be a primary combatant level shooter/melee too - i.e. take people out quietly.
In that light, no, you really aren't any better off here. While elf is perfect for the shooter/infiltrator/B&E/with a smide-of-Face, was there a specific reason you went from Ork to Elf? It very much makes my previous advice which was made in the context of an Ork build (which you seemed to have ignored anyway) meaningless.
Major questions/issues to address now: you dropped your STR down to nothing, but picked up a STR based weapon (Blades)? Counterproductive. You also dropped any form of Firearm and your REA and INT, this all combined - even though you managed an 11 Pool in Blades - has pretty much made you into a complete non-combatant. You now really cannot contribute in any meaningful way to combat. For most tables, this is bad. You can defend yourself, but that's really it.
A general rule, don't hard-max any stat, unless you're a Technomancer or a super-BOD Troll build. The reason, for instance with this elf build, you're paying 50 Karma at chargen what would cost you 35 post-chargen - this is a horrible inefficiency.
Your Animal Handling Incompetency is kind of cheese, your GM may or may not allow it. And don't get me wrong, I've used that exact Incompetency but it was paired with Animal Training, a Mild Allergy to animals with hair, and Spirit Bane (Beast) as well... so I guess what I'm saying is, use your Neg Quals to build character, not to try and grab free BP.
Your Powers and Ware look like they'll line up nicely once we get the rest of this sorted out...
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Yeah i get ya ;D.
Didnt spot that blades were strength dependent
Took elf for the agility and charisma over ork for the str and bod
The animal handling was basically, if someone has a guard dog i shit my pants and panic, i might take some other neg qualities to play that up more thanks
Also, i dropped the adept way, the bp cost was too high for thediscount to powers i wasnt taking.
Unseen hands is nice but, i dunno, spend the bp on skill group ?.
What do you reckon on the powers if istay elf ?
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What do you reckon on the powers if istay elf ?
Well, first, I just noticed you hard-maxed your MAG. Unfortunately, IMO, the No-Hard-Max rule applies to MAG for Adepts (and Magicians, and anyone) too, especially since you're taking ESS loss and immediately losing that MAG.
So, if you drop your base MAG to 5, you can keep the Powers you've already chosen (which I think they're all good choices, given your goals) IF you take an Adept's Geasa over all of them. Otherwise you'll have to lose 1 Power Point worth of Powers - probably Counterstrike and Facial Sculpt for now.
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Sorry, confused. I only bought MAG at 4.
Where am i looking in the books about losing powers ?
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Sorry, confused. I only bought MAG at 4.
Where am i looking in the books about losing powers ?
Then I don't think you've been taking into account the MAG (aka Power Points) you lose when you lose ESS.
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Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?
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You buy the magic and then you lose essence and magic.
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Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?
If you're "buying MAG up to your ESS" you are buying 6 MAG.
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Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?
If you're "buying MAG up to your ESS" you are buying 6 MAG.
Awww crap I get it now, so you need to buy the Magic points and then waste them with ESS loss due to ware ?
man that sucks, .. guess time to go back to the board and not waste 30BP + on the ware and stay plain adept..
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Actually it's not a bad idea to take a point of ESS/MAG loss as an Adept unless it's contrary to your story. You can cram a lot of dice into 1 (or 2) points of ESS, plus it decreases your Initiation costs. But you just don't want to start with that 6 MAG.
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okay then, here we go. (are you saying Don't buy all 6 points of magic at creation (before essence loss ?)
Back to Orc, I like the way it works out with a Blade (again back to the silent killing )
took 6 magic and dropped 1 ESS
took the Improved reflexes at level 2 .. might driop that and use the points elsewhere... what do you think ?
( after posting this below, I played at somethin else : dropped a skill group and bought Warriors Way, just to try out the discounts and added in quick draw as an additional power,
Then have bought a Vibro sword, free action to draw and ready .. thus negatinng the (Audible Hum & lack of stealth) ...it's fluff, but I like the way it **Might** work)
== Info ==
Street Name: Silas
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 2
Public Awareness: 0
Ork
Composure: 7
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 12 (105 kg/70 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4 (5)
AGI: 5 (6)
REA: 5 (7)
STR: 6 (7)
CHA: 4
INT: 3
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 2
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 5.0
Initiative: 8 (10)
IP: 1 (3)
Astral Initiative: 6
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 6
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Archery : 0 Pool: 5
Armorer : 0 Pool: 2
Artisan : 0 Pool: 2
Automatics : 0 Pool: 5
Blades : 4 Pool: 11
Climbing : 2 Pool: 10
Clubs : 0 Pool: 5
Computer : 0 Pool: 2
Con : 2 Pool: 8
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 2
Data Search : 0 Pool: 2
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 2
Disguise : 0 Pool: 2
Diving : 0 Pool: 4
Dodge : 0 Pool: 6
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 5
Etiquette : 2 Pool: 8
First Aid : 0 Pool: 2
Flight : 2 Pool: 10
Forgery : 0 Pool: 5
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 5
Gymnastics : 2 Pool: 9
Hacking : 0 Pool: 2
Hardware : 4 Pool: 9
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 5
Infiltration : 4 Pool: 11
Instruction : 0 Pool: 3
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 3
Leadership : 2 Pool: 8
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 5
Longarms : 0 Pool: 5
Navigation : 0 Pool: 2
Negotiation : 2 Pool: 8
Palming : 0 Pool: 5
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 4
Perception : 1 Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 8
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 6
Pistols : 1 Pool: 7
Riding : 0 Pool: 6
Running : 2 Pool: 10
Shadowing : 0 Pool: 2
Survival : 0 Pool: 2
Swimming : 2 Pool: 10
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 5
Tracking : 0 Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 5
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Contacts ==
Fence (2, 2)
== Qualities ==
Adept
Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Animal fur)
Incompetent (Animal Handling)
Incompetent (Animal Training)
Low-Light Vision
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
Signature
== Powers ==
Counterstrike Rating: 1
Improved Ability (Combat) (Blades) Rating: 1
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Hardware) Rating: 2
Improved Reflexes 2
Kinesics Rating: 2
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Reflex Recorder (Skill Group) (Stealth)
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium Rating 1
== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit 6/4
+Thermal Damping 6
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
+Fire Resistance 6
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Leg Casings 0/1
SecureTech Shin Guards 0/1
SecureTech Vitals Protector1/1
== Weapons ==
Katar
+Personalized Grip, Melee
Pool: 12 DV: 6P AP: -2 RC: 0
Savalette Guardian
+Concealable Holster
+Additional Clip, Pistol
+Personalized Grip
+Silencer
+Smartgun System
Pool: 9 DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 5 DV: 4S AP: - RC: 0
== Commlink ==
Erika Elite (3, 4, 3, 4)
+Subvocal Microphone
+Novatech Navi
== Gear ==
Ammo: Gel Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x100
Autopicker Rating 6
Biomonitor
Contact Lenses Rating 2
+Smartlink
+Flare Compensation
Earbuds Rating 2
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Fake SIN (Close Protection) Rating 4
+Fake License (Savalette Guardian) Rating 4
Foam Explosive Rating 10
Goggles Rating 3
+Thermographic
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Image Link
Grapple Gun
+Stealth Rope (100 m)
+Catalyst Stick
Jammer, Hand Held Rating 2
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Latex Face Mask
Maglock Sequencer Rating 4
Medkit Rating 6
Miniwelder
Plasteel Restraints x2
Radio Detonator x5
Respirator Rating 6
Smart Pouch System, Combat Load Vest
+Smart Pouch System, Smart Canteen
+Smart Pouch System, Ammunition Pouch
Tag Eraser
White Noise Generator Rating 6
== Vehicles ==
Indian Pathfinder (Racing Bike)
+Anti-Theft
+Morphing License Plate
+Run Flat Tires Rating 2
+Spoof Chip
+Vehicle Sensor
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It's probably worth pointing out; all your 'ware is bio, and if you included any cyber (Essence value less than your total bio) in that, the essence cost of the cyber would be halved. What to do with cyber is another question. Whether you really need the suprathyroid gland / synthacardium r1 versus muscle toner r4 is the question I'd be asking.
On weapons and strength, if you went back to elf and took a monofilament whip, you could be putting out a decent 8P / -4AP / Reach 2 in melee. That would make strength redundant, and give you reason to up your edge.
Wifi. If you can get skinlink mods into your contacts / earbuds / commlink, that's always going to be a plus.
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Firstly, Thanks for ALL the advice, it's really helped me understand the process a lot more.
:'(
But, it looks like, for ME ... Adepts just don't add up, I think I need a bit more experience of play before I can make one that I'd enjoy,
I've just thrown away all the magic and powers etc. and with the nearly 100 extra BP have bought Skills and Cyber / Bio
and Numbers wise ( abilities and skills) it is far superior,
I'll be rolling as a SAM (sans Bushido code)
I will no doubt be back to annoy and pester you again soon (probably when I acquire some terminal religion)
all the best
Mach
(oh, P.S. ... how the hell are Move-by-wire and skillsofts so Utterly expensive ?)
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Move-by-wire is expensive because it's really good. Skillsofts are expensive because uhhhh.... they do get more good later on, or if your GM lets you pirate them.
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If your GM allows freeware, (see under open source, unwired) I'd go for that. It's exactly what it says on the box (free) - but limited to rating 4. Which happens to be the limit on autosofts ...
(this is munchworthy)
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I hope nobody mines me hijacking this thread a little... I've been building an infiltration adept and found the advice here very useful. I had one question; is there some reason why Reflex Recorder [Stealth] and the adept power Improved Ability (Infiltration) wouldn't stack? Chummer certainly seems to think it doesn't, counting only the Reflex Recorder and ignoring the two ranks of Improved Ability.
Is there a cap to the amount you can augment a skill, like the augmented cap for attributes? Or does this have something to do with me buying Infilitration as part of a skill group?
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Yes, the cap is unaugmented skill x1.5. Reflex Recorder and Improved Ability do stack, but they are limited by that cap.