Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wreck on <06-21-13/1026:37>
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I would like to formally request that Catalyst Games and Cliffhanger Productions re-evaluate their joint decision to only provide in-game content codes in Print Books and Box Sets. I understand that including a SR:O in-game content codes with the purchase of PDF Books means some changes to the sales process of PDF Books. And would require a more effort on the side of Catalyst and it's electronic's distributors for less profit. However, your decision, which is likely an attempt to create incentives for Print material sales also creates a negative incentive NOT to buy PDF materials.
This sends a negative message to me as a consumer, that my business is less valued by Catalyst. Which, in-turn, makes me question my brand loyalty. This decision negatively impacts my purchasing power/choices as a consumer. I, and many other people in the world, have made a conscious decision to move away from Print books. This is a combination of wanting to reduce my consumption of unnecessary paper-products and my physical space limitations. I would even be willing to pay a higher price for the PDF version of the books if it included the content codes. I really like what I've seen so far in the preview releases and I am likely going to buy all of the SR5 materials, but in PDF, not print.
An option which many game producers have used in the past, provides different content depending on the source of the code. Meaning PDF linked codes would provide content X while Print Books provide content Y and Box Sets provide content Z. This creates incentives to purchase of ALL forms of Catalyst's SR5 materials. Which would mean MORE money for Catalyst to produce even MORE material.
For those of you who agree with me that Catalyst Games and Cliffhanger Productions should include in-game content codes with PDFs, please join your voices to mine.
I also have this request on Shadowrun.com: http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/27669/catalystsro-in-game-content-codes-why-no-pdf-love (http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/27669/catalystsro-in-game-content-codes-why-no-pdf-love). Supporters, please add your voice there as well.
Thank you for considering my request.
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I should note that they announced a $20 price for the SR5 PDF, whereas the book is $60. With such a significant price difference, I'm fine with no codes in there, if the price differences are minimal for other books however I'd like a code with them.
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Which is also why I stated I would be willing to pay a higher price for code inclusion.
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Language. :<
http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/03/05/catalyst-game-labs-and-shadowrun-online-cooperation/
"The first series of books and box sets released by Catalyst Game Labs—such as Shadowrun, Fifth Edition, Shadowrun Introductory Box Set, Shadowrun: Crossfire, Stolen Souls, and so on—will contain a unique, one-time use code in every book or box that will allow Shadowrun Online players to obtain unique items only available through the tabletop items."
Also mentioned in Preview #5, with images of some of the toys.
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Wow relax and take them medication, a content code is a code in printed product you can use to acess a soft version of the material through the web...
I personally agree with the principle that since you pay for the intellectual property when you buy a product, you should also automatically have acess to a soft version of the material. That being said, 20$ for the soft version is very cheap.
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Just ask a friend then. I know I'm not bothering with SR:Online [Edit : why the hell did I say SR Euro?], and I doubt most players will be either. Easy peasy, no need to get a thousand signatures on a worthless internet petition either.
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This sends a negative message to me as a consumer, that my business is less valued by Catalyst.
Thank you for considering my request.
Or you could just see it as having a choice, instead of coming off as entitled. Want the codes? Buy an actual book. Want the ability to have the book on any electronic device you can read it on, for one third the price? Buy the PDF. Want the best of both worlds? Buy both. That's what I'll be doing.
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I do not feel entitled to anything, nor do I disagree that the $20 price tag (which is significantly lower than the print version) should necessitate a content-code. This is part of why I also stated that I would be willing to pay a higher price.
@Wildcard, you may feel that voicing myself as a consumer is "worthless." I do not. Will my attempt lead to what I would like to see as a consumer? Maybe, maybe not. But if I don't try, then nothing will ever be changed. As to your suggestion to get the code from a friend who may not want to also play SR:O. I am not trying to just save money. Nor am I trying to gype Catalyst out of what they are do for the wonderful material they produce. I am simply trying to find a happier medium for myself as a consumer.
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I do not feel entitled to anything, nor do I disagree that the $20 price tag (which is significantly lower than the print version) should necessitate a content-code. This is part of why I also stated that I would be willing to pay a higher price.
The thing is, I see this all the time, though more often in the MMOs I test: There will be a couple different versions offered, with tiered rewards for each 'level.' It also never fails that one version will have something that someone wants, but they want a different version. So threads get started asking for the same thing you are (and generally stating it with that same 'they don't value me statement'): A new tier that combines a cheaper price, bundled with something offered at a higher tier, with the offer of being willing to pay more for that new tier. Really you just need to choose; do you want the code that badly, do you want the convenience and cheaper price of the PDF, or do you want both?
Personally I prefer actual books over PDFs, unless I can't get the material in print. However my group looks to be making the switch over to 5th Ed (which I am very grateful for), so I have made the choice to get the rules as soon as they come out in the PDF, and then grab the actual book when it ships. If you really want the code that badly, and really don't want to get both, then wait. They shouldn't have to make a different version of the PDF just so you can have the code. Try thinking of it as a perk of getting the 'deluxe' version (i.e. the book), instead of you getting hosed for buying a PDF.
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Completely valid argument. I would love to be able to buy the books, but I can't. It's not a price issue either. I think the Print Book and other price sets are completely fair. You are right though that I have to make a decision. But so did the company. And that decision is a combination of their cost-benefit analysis as well as marketing incentives. But that does put me in a "less-valued" tier to the company. And the creation of more tiers creates more pricing and consumption options. Will they make all of the possible options available no. But it doesn't hurt me to try. This is because of a nifty little trick of markets. Demand drives supply. I am just hoping that I am not the only one wanting to be supplied at the level that I would prefer.
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I do not feel entitled to anything, nor do I disagree that the $20 price tag (which is significantly lower than the print version) should necessitate a content-code. This is part of why I also stated that I would be willing to pay a higher price.
@Wildcard, you may feel that voicing myself as a consumer is "worthless." I do not. Will my attempt lead to what I would like to see as a consumer? Maybe, maybe not. But if I don't try, then nothing will ever be changed. As to your suggestion to get the code from a friend who may not want to also play SR:O. I am not trying to just save money. Nor am I trying to gype Catalyst out of what they are do for the wonderful material they produce. I am simply trying to find a happier medium for myself as a consumer.
You misunderstand. I don't think you're an asshole for demanding virtual items. I just think there's an easier (and cheaper) way to do it by asking friends, and that method also doesn't involve Catalyst changing it's policies, making it infinitely more likely.
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While I don't have much stake in the issue, I would suggest your send your post via email, using the contact links on the SR and CGL web sites. I'm pretty sure those go direct to Randall.
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Odly enough asking friends for their ecopy is stealing to me.
And on the same line I think they are taking a huge risk in selling the soft versions for that much lower than the hard version. Hopefully it wont bite them in the ass and reduce their paper copies sale too much.
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Odly enough asking friends for their ecopy is stealing to me.
And on the same line I think they are taking a huge risk in selling the soft versions for that much lower than the hard version. Hopefully it wont bite them in the ass and reduce their paper copies sale too much.
I agree with you 100%.
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And on the same line I think they are taking a huge risk in selling the soft versions for that much lower than the hard version. Hopefully it wont bite them in the ass and reduce their paper copies sale too much.
Not sure I agree with you on this point...they've been selling the core SR4A book @$15 for years now.
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For a $40 price difference between PDF and Print, I'm willing to give up the code for extra SR: Online stuff with the PDF. Heck, I'm still undecided whether I'm going to mess with the online game anyway (will depend heavily on whether it is free-to-play or not).
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For a $40 price difference between PDF and Print, I'm willing to give up the code for extra SR: Online stuff with the PDF. Heck, I'm still undecided whether I'm going to mess with the online game anyway (will depend heavily on whether it is free-to-play or not).
Yes, it is, and no, it's not. That help?
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For a $40 price difference between PDF and Print, I'm willing to give up the code for extra SR: Online stuff with the PDF. Heck, I'm still undecided whether I'm going to mess with the online game anyway (will depend heavily on whether it is free-to-play or not).
Yes, it is, and no, it's not. That help?
All I care about is if there's a subscription fee on it. All of them have "extras" one can get for in-game currency that's been purchased with real money.
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But that does put me in a "less-valued" tier to the company.
No, it doesn't; that's just your ego talking there. They can't cater to every single situation out there? If you absolutely cannot get a print book, either from a store, a store's website, or another website such as Amazon, then it sucks for you but that isn't the company's fault. You are making it sound like it's a personal attack on you from the company. I'm sure that when making this decision they didn't say, "Hey! Let's totally ruin Wreck's day with this." They came up with a plan that included selling a PDF copy of the rules for 1/3 the price of the book, but without some extras like the code and that art/poster thing I heard about. Option B, the book, costs $60 but you get the code and the other extras. You are not in any way "less valued" by this offer, and if you cannot get the book that is not Catalyst's fault, nor does it imply any denigration of you on their part.
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With all the talk focusing on price-points and whether or not it all stems from a sense of entitlement, or lack thereof, anyone considered that in order to provide SR:O codes on the pdfs there would have to be a system in place to generate a new serial code at the moment of purchase for every PDF sold? Wouldn't matter if the code for, say, the SR5 core book always provided the same item... each code used on SR:O would have to be different in order for the items to be assigned to each account. And since the selling of PDF books involves having a single copy of the file which is shared out to those who buy it and not a stack of books where the codes could be generated at the printers so each physical copy has its own unique code, then BattleCorps and DriveThru would have to have something encoded into their purchase software to account for code generation.
So no, I don't think it's wise or feasible for them to encode SR:O items codes into PDF sales.
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With all the talk focusing on price-points and whether or not it all stems from a sense of entitlement, or lack thereof, anyone considered that in order to provide SR:O codes on the pdfs there would have to be a system in place to generate a new serial code at the moment of purchase for every PDF sold? Wouldn't matter if the code for, say, the SR5 core book always provided the same item... each code used on SR:O would have to be different in order for the items to be assigned to each account. And since the selling of PDF books involves having a single copy of the file which is shared out to those who buy it and not a stack of books where the codes could be generated at the printers so each physical copy has its own unique code, then BattleCorps and DriveThru would have to have something encoded into their purchase software to account for code generation.
So no, I don't think it's wise or feasible for them to encode SR:O items codes into PDF sales.
Actually, that should be fairly doable in much the same way that those companies that sell video games in digital download format do: You buy the product, and then either get a code generated for your account, accessible on your account page, or you get an email with the code. Then can still have one-use codes that way to make sure that people do not share them.
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With all the talk focusing on price-points and whether or not it all stems from a sense of entitlement, or lack thereof, anyone considered that in order to provide SR:O codes on the pdfs there would have to be a system in place to generate a new serial code at the moment of purchase for every PDF sold? Wouldn't matter if the code for, say, the SR5 core book always provided the same item... each code used on SR:O would have to be different in order for the items to be assigned to each account. And since the selling of PDF books involves having a single copy of the file which is shared out to those who buy it and not a stack of books where the codes could be generated at the printers so each physical copy has its own unique code, then BattleCorps and DriveThru would have to have something encoded into their purchase software to account for code generation.
So no, I don't think it's wise or feasible for them to encode SR:O items codes into PDF sales.
Actually, that should be fairly doable in much the same way that those companies that sell video games in digital download format do: You buy the product, and then either get a code generated for your account, accessible on your account page, or you get an email with the code. Then can still have one-use codes that way to make sure that people do not share them.
The problem here is integrating it in with Battleshop and DTRPG's systems, because that is necessary.
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For some of the books (like the basic rulebook), I will probably get both, for others (like fluff books) I only get the PDF. While I like the PDF, for instance for character generation (like for PbPs) or for reading at work ;) , when playing at a table I prefer to have the book, as it's easier to quickly look something up in. I'm probably old-fashioned that way, but I can find most things in a book much faster than in the PDF of the same.
I also don't need those codes, as I don't play SR online, but I can understand that some people would want them with the PDF. A compromise (something we Belgians are very good at :) ) might be to include the code in the PDF, but if you use a PDF code (they can make the two different fairly easy I assume) you have to pay a little extra to get your item. That way the people who want the item can still get it from the PDF only, but they won't get it for free as if they would have bought the more expensive book.
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The problem here is integrating it in with Battleshop and DTRPG's systems, because that is necessary.
Depends on what the system used is I guess, and how well a code generator could be integrated.
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I also don't need those codes, as I don't play SR online, but I can understand that some people would want them with the PDF. A compromise (something we Belgians are very good at :) ) might be to include the code in the PDF, but if you use a PDF code (they can make the two different fairly easy I assume) you have to pay a little extra to get your item. That way the people who want the item can still get it from the PDF only, but they won't get it for free as if they would have bought the more expensive book.
The thing is that such perks are generally only offered as an incentive for purchasing a certain thing (in this case the print materials listed); offering them other ways kind of defeats the purpose of having them as an incentive. It's much the same as when different stores (either physical or internet) have different rewards for ordering at their store; this happens all the time in online games. It's up to the buyer to decide what they want to do. In this case if the OP wants that code so badly, they need to buy the book. Offering the code with the PDF, but paying 'a little extra' defeats the purpose of the incentive every bit as much as the original suggestion to charge slightly more for a PDF version with the code. Actually, what you are suggesting is the same as what the OP did, unless the extra charge is in the game itself; if the latter, that extra charge is fairly meaningless, and still defeats the purpose.
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Keep in mind that all these codes do is give access to items with a different look from the other ones, they're not mechanically somewhat-superior like the Premium Items.
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Keep in mind that all these codes do is give access to items with a different look from the other ones, they're not mechanically somewhat-superior like the Premium Items.
Excellent to hear!
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Depends on what the system used is I guess, and how well a code generator could be integrated.
You can't simply use the same code generator as the one that SR:O is using. You have to ask the folks at SR:O to generate you a large number of codes so that you don't run the risk of duplicating generated numbers.
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So since the "solution" seems to be asking a friend to give you the code if they're not going to play SR:O, will there be a giveaway thread here or something?
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So since the "solution" seems to be asking a friend to give you the code if they're not going to play SR:O, will there be a giveaway thread here or something?
You might see one, although with confirmation now that the items are really just different skins to in-game weapons you probably will not see a lot of requests.
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I was contacted by the President of Cliffhanger Productions. He explained Catalyst's decision not to include the code with the PDFs. According to him, it is to promote purchases at local game stores. I have to say, I am 100% behind this decision now. I probably still won't buy a Print Copy (this isn't because I can't find one it's because I literally do not want another physical book in my collection), but I have to say that what they are doing to try and boost local store sales is a good thing.
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Interesting - thanks for the info.